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Subject: Riding The Edge Questions rss

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Tony Pecorelli
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Riding The Edge is a soldier action card. I have some questions about this card that hopefully someone can either confirm what I'm thinking or give me the right answer.

1) Based on the movement section on the card, it appears I can only use this card after I move aggressively. But the card guide says it counts as an aggressive move. So does the card itself let it be used or does Hustle or Sprint have to be played first? Sprint and Riding the Edge are both Actions while Hustle is an Action/Reaction. So this would seem that the only way to play Riding the Edge would be to proceed it with a Hustle. This seems restrictive if true.

2) The card states that you can end the movement on a space with a monster that is killed. If we assume the Action is successful and I run over 3 minions killing them all, does the treasure pop on the last minion square where I've stopped moving or does it pop on the last minion square where the soldier did not end on?
Ex. moving left to right
XX$ - where X = minion and $ = Soldier and Treasure
or
XTS - where X = minion, T = Treasure, S = Soldier

3) If the last enemy in the line is a Captain and I don't have enough damage or rage to kill him or get past him can I even damage him? Ex. 2 minions and a captain in a straight line. I have 4 movement and can hit both minions and get into the second square of the Captain, but cannot get past the captain. Does my movement stop at the Captain only dealing damage to the minions? Does my movement stop at the Captain but I can deal 1 damage to the Captain? Supposing I DO have enough movement to get past the captain, do I damage the Captain for each square or only max of 1?

Thanks for taking the time to read my verbose questions.
 
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Endevor Rovedne
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1) this card IS an aggressive move, you don't have to play another one.

2) i am not sure i understand, the treasure always pop on the 3rd monster killed, if you kill 5 monsters in straight line the treasure should pop on the 3rd square.

3)Not for each square that is sure.
For the other question i have no official answer sorry.
 
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Kevin Outlaw
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Endevor wrote:


2) i am not sure i understand, the treasure always pop on the 3rd monster killed, if you kill 5 monsters in straight line the treasure should pop on the 3rd square.


Will treasure pop on a space where a hero is standing?
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Endevor Rovedne
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nothing prevent it, you still have to use 1mp to catch it
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Remi Bureau
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RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
Endevor wrote:


2) i am not sure i understand, the treasure always pop on the 3rd monster killed, if you kill 5 monsters in straight line the treasure should pop on the 3rd square.


Will treasure pop on a space where a hero is standing?


The treasure pops where the 3rd minion killed was standing, no matter where the Soldier ends its move.
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Remi Bureau
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hatchhermit wrote:

3) If the last enemy in the line is a Captain and I don't have enough damage or rage to kill him or get past him can I even damage him? Ex. 2 minions and a captain in a straight line. I have 4 movement and can hit both minions and get into the second square of the Captain, but cannot get past the captain. Does my movement stop at the Captain only dealing damage to the minions? Does my movement stop at the Captain but I can deal 1 damage to the Captain? Supposing I DO have enough movement to get past the captain, do I damage the Captain for each square or only max of 1?

Thanks for taking the time to read my verbose questions.


I think (have not seen a rule on this, so it's mostly how I'd play it) you wouldn't affect an enemy if yuo can't go into its square. So in your example, you would kill the 2 minions, and stop in front of the captain, and wouldn't hurt it.
The other card I'm thinking of that would have the same restriction in Suicide Run (Brigand).

Also not mentionned I believe, but I don't think you can use either of these cards to attack a lair. I know the Terror mentions you can't move through it, and I don't think it's mentionned for the lairs, but I would still think you can't move through them.
 
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Tony Pecorelli
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RedMonkeyBoy wrote:


Will treasure pop on a space where a hero is standing?


Thank you for clarifying my overly wordy question.

Endevor wrote:
nothing prevent it, you still have to use 1mp to catch it


RemiBureau wrote:


The treasure pops where the 3rd minion killed was standing, no matter where the Soldier ends its move.


Cool. That's what I did, but I wasn't sure if treasure was allowed to pop where a player was. Thanks!

RemiBureau wrote:


I think (have not seen a rule on this, so it's mostly how I'd play it) you wouldn't affect an enemy if yuo can't go into its square. So in your example, you would kill the 2 minions, and stop in front of the captain, and wouldn't hurt it.
The other card I'm thinking of that would have the same restriction in Suicide Run (Brigand).

Also not mentionned I believe, but I don't think you can use either of these cards to attack a lair. I know the Terror mentions you can't move through it, and I don't think it's mentionned for the lairs, but I would still think you can't move through them.


Ok, so the Captain is a possibility if you can extend the run through it, but a boss and lair can't be moved through. I'm guessing a mini-boss would have the same restriction.
 
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Remi Bureau
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hatchhermit wrote:
RedMonkeyBoy wrote:


Will treasure pop on a space where a hero is standing?


Thank you for clarifying my overly wordy question.

Endevor wrote:
nothing prevent it, you still have to use 1mp to catch it


RemiBureau wrote:


The treasure pops where the 3rd minion killed was standing, no matter where the Soldier ends its move.


Cool. That's what I did, but I wasn't sure if treasure was allowed to pop where a player was. Thanks!

RemiBureau wrote:


I think (have not seen a rule on this, so it's mostly how I'd play it) you wouldn't affect an enemy if yuo can't go into its square. So in your example, you would kill the 2 minions, and stop in front of the captain, and wouldn't hurt it.
The other card I'm thinking of that would have the same restriction in Suicide Run (Brigand).

Also not mentionned I believe, but I don't think you can use either of these cards to attack a lair. I know the Terror mentions you can't move through it, and I don't think it's mentionned for the lairs, but I would still think you can't move through them.


Ok, so the Captain is a possibility if you can extend the run through it, but a boss and lair can't be moved through. I'm guessing a mini-boss would have the same restriction.


The boss, at least the Terror, we know for sure (it's on the card), but lairs and mini-bosses are simply assumptions. I don't want you to think it's a definitive rule...

Can someone with the game check if there's anything in that regard on Yardu's card?

I'm dying without the game out here folks!
 
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Brian Shotton
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Bosses and mini-bosses have rules at the bottom of the cards for these things (like move through). Lairs are outlined in Red most of the time, so they can't be moved through.
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Remi Bureau
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Thanks Brian
 
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S Marstiller
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And just to make sure I'm doing this right, the dice I roll for this are my Shield dice, right?
 
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Jeremy Steward
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marstiller wrote:
And just to make sure I'm doing this right, the dice I roll for this are my Shield dice, right?


Correct. Due to the shield keyword.
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Jake Nyiri
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hatchhermit wrote:

2) The card states that you can end the movement on a space with a monster that is killed.


Just bought the game yesterday, been playing for about five hours, STILL on the first tile of the first story quest due to absolutely no rules being explained in the rulebook.

The Riding the Edge card does NOT state that you can end your movement on a square with an enemy. It says, "Riding the edge; 1 damage, Range:1; Move; Shield (nowhere in the rulebook does it say you need a shield to trigger the shield keyword, btw, I know thats the intent..the intent of the rulebook was to have rules, clearly--but they're not in it);This Soldier attacks targets PASSED OVER (caps mine) in a 3 square straight line. Rage adds +1 square. Cannot MOve afterwards." I have not yet (on this 6x6 tile) been in a situation where the Soldier could use this card. Are there different versions of the card? Or is this number 632 on the list of Rules Questions for Myth They Answered Somewhere Other Than The Rulebook? I am interpreting it as the Soldier must land on an empty square and hit the targets he passed over. He can't know until he does the attack if he hits them or not (assuming two monster-types) so he can't know if he will kill the 3rd monster, but if he doesn't, he CANNOT Move to a clear space beyond the last monster as explicitly stated on the card. So I assume you need to play at least 1 Rage and have a clear space at the end of the line to attack three minions in a row, and the basic attack allows you to hit two at most, if theres a third clear space.

NOWHERE in the rules does it say you need a Shield due to the keyword. If the Shield keyword means you need a Shield, then the Move keyword should mean YOU HAVE TO HAVE DONE A MOVE to trigger the attack, and no Soldier card with the Battle keyword can ever be played. (Yes, I know in the first official FAQ it explains this. The first official FAQ also had to explain how to do the most basic type of attack with the most basic type of enemy, cuz that wasn't explained in the rulebook. Im just going by the rules that came with the game I bought. Well, the partial-game-I-need-to-buy-more-shit-to-even-use-all-the-stuff-in-the-base-box that I bought.)
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Jarad Bond
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JakeNyiri wrote:
hatchhermit wrote:

2) The card states that you can end the movement on a space with a monster that is killed.


Just bought the game yesterday, been playing for about five hours, STILL on the first tile of the first story quest due to absolutely no rules being explained in the rulebook.

The Riding the Edge card does NOT state that you can end your movement on a square with an enemy. It says, "Riding the edge; 1 damage, Range:1; Move; Shield (nowhere in the rulebook does it say you need a shield to trigger the shield keyword, btw, I know thats the intent..the intent of the rulebook was to have rules, clearly--but they're not in it);

Yeah, the rulebook is a steaming pile. It was never tested, and they pretty much ignored KS backer feedback.

Quote:
This Soldier attacks targets PASSED OVER (caps mine) in a 3 square straight line. Rage adds +1 square. Cannot MOve afterwards." I have not yet (on this 6x6 tile) been in a situation where the Soldier could use this card.

When enemies spawn, they tend to come out adjacent to the lair, nearest to the hero. Enemies won't normally move after spawning, so you can typically jog to the side and blast down the line. You could also play a hustle as a reaction if you had it to better position yourself. Riding the edge is a fairly situational card. I end up using it as an expensive sprint more often than not. They stated somewhere at some point in time that you can just use it for the move (this was question #1024, I think).

Quote:
Are there different versions of the card? Or is this number 632 on the list of Rules Questions for Myth They Answered Somewhere Other Than The Rulebook?

No different versions (yet). Yes, it is #632 +/- 30 or so that were answered in one of the threads on their site.

Quote:
I am interpreting it as the Soldier must land on an empty square and hit the targets he passed over. He can't know until he does the attack if he hits them or not (assuming two monster-types) so he can't know if he will kill the 3rd monster, but if he doesn't, he CANNOT Move to a clear space beyond the last monster as explicitly stated on the card. So I assume you need to play at least 1 Rage and have a clear space at the end of the line to attack three minions in a row, and the basic attack allows you to hit two at most, if theres a third clear space.

You only need a rage card to move 4 instead of 3. Megacon Games hasn't been explicitly clear, but just play this card like Suicide Run which has been explained to death (not in the rulebook or hero deck reference, of course). Play the card, state your intent (where you want to end up, even if the square is occupied). Roll your dice. If you kill nothing, you advance in the direction you stated until you are blocked by an enemy (maybe there were empty spaces between you and the first enemy). If you kill one type, you remove them first before you advance until you are blocked by an enemy. If you kill all of them, you can move like you wanted.

Quote:
NOWHERE in the rules does it say you need a Shield due to the keyword.

And for bonus fun, the artwork shows your soldier cutting things up with a blade!

Quote:
If the Shield keyword means you need a Shield, then the Move keyword should mean YOU HAVE TO HAVE DONE A MOVE to trigger the attack, and no Soldier card with the Battle keyword can ever be played.(Yes, I know in the first official FAQ it explains this. The first official FAQ also had to explain how to do the most basic type of attack with the most basic type of enemy, cuz that wasn't explained in the rulebook. Im just going by the rules that came with the game I bought. Well, the partial-game-I-need-to-buy-more-shit-to-even-use-all-the-stuff-in-the-base-box that I bought.)

Meh, their usage and explanation of keywords really sucks so far, but I don't necessarily agree on this point. Shield means it is a shield attack (thus using shield bonuses and requiring a shield). Move means it is a move (thus making and requiring your movement to be aggressive for the turn).

If you keep trying, and manage to learn all of the rules, the game can be a lot of fun. Now that I've made it through all the phases, I'm enjoying the game:

1. Confusion.
2. Rage.
3. Repeat 1 and 2 for a while.
4. Resignation that things won't change. Much.
5a. Sell your game.
-or-
6b. Make up your own rules where they aren't clear. Then break the ones that are bizarre. And proceed thwack the baddies.

For example, I'd recommend using no loitering, or one of the alternate rules. Not sure what they were doing with that one. It sure doesn't accomplish anything they state it does.

I'm also trying the proposed variant of breaking stories into chapter quests. But that's going to be work (printing third-party cards).
 
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Joshua Russell
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Wow.. I've actually been playing it that you need to use a hustle to play it... since the way the rules are writen, would lead you to believe this...
Who ever thought it would be a good idea for the movement things on the left hand side of the cards, shouldn't be allowed to design another game... ever...
 
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Jarad Bond
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joshuar56 wrote:
Wow.. I've actually been playing it that you need to use a hustle to play it... since the way the rules are writen, would lead you to believe this...
Who ever thought it would be a good idea for the movement things on the left hand side of the cards, shouldn't be allowed to design another game... ever...

Yeah, I hope you aren't pledging for the Mercs Recon, then. ;-)

I personally like the way they designed and implemented the movement bar. Except that they admitted that they got it wrong on the basic movement cards themselves (sprint and hustle). In the reprint, they will be changing aggressive to "Yes" and everything else to "No" (it was all "Yes" before). Except they will be making it more confusing by actually printing "N/A" instead of "No". Just for move cards. Adding another term that means the same thing is a big no-no when you're writing a ruleset because people naturally wonder why and how they differ.

The other crime against humanity they about to perpitrate is that they will have an entirely separate move style in the Darkness Cycle that (temporarily) interrupts your current move style in your Hero Cycle. This is also confirmed by them in Kickstarter Update #114, where they say the "Standing Still" movement icon in Darkness still stands because they will be using different movement in future cards.

So, that means I will be able to start my HC, play a hustle, use the aggressive bonus... then DC activates, has multiple things spawn, activations, threat, special abilities, etc... then perhaps I move cautiously and take a cautious bonus for an interrupt card... then I'm back to my original HC and aggressive if I want to play anything else (or to prevent me from playing something else).

I have enough trouble remembering what movement style I am on as-is and whether or not I have used it all up with all the other interrupting going on (other players and darkness both).

Edit: Updated my explanation of the movement reprint for clarity.
 
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Joshua Russell
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logris wrote:
joshuar56 wrote:
Wow.. I've actually been playing it that you need to use a hustle to play it... since the way the rules are writen, would lead you to believe this...
Who ever thought it would be a good idea for the movement things on the left hand side of the cards, shouldn't be allowed to design another game... ever...

Yeah, I hope you aren't pledging for the Mercs Recon, then. ;-)

I personally like the way they designed and implemented the movement bar. Except that they admitted that they got it wrong on the basic movement cards themselves (sprint and hustle). In the reprint, they will be changing aggressive to "Yes" and everything else to "No" (it was all "Yes" before). Except they will be making it more confusing by actually printing "N/A" instead of "No". Just for move cards. Adding another term that means the same thing is a big no-no when you're writing a ruleset because people naturally wonder why and how they differ.

The other crime against humanity they about to perpitrate is that they will have an entirely separate move style in the Darkness Cycle that (temporarily) interrupts your current move style in your Hero Cycle. This is also confirmed by them in Kickstarter Update #114, where they say the "Standing Still" movement icon in Darkness still stands because they will be using different movement in future cards.

So, that means I will be able to start my HC, play a hustle, use the aggressive bonus... then DC activates, has multiple things spawn, activations, threat, special abilities, etc... then perhaps I move cautiously and take a cautious bonus for an interrupt card... then I'm back to my original HC and aggressive if I want to play anything else (or to prevent me from playing something else).

I have enough trouble remembering what movement style I am on as-is and whether or not I have used it all up with all the other interrupting going on (other players and darkness both).

Edit: Updated my explanation of the movement reprint for clarity.

I passed on Recon, because of how bad the MYTH rules and cards are. I saw a preview of the Recon rulebook and it's just about as bad. Who ever is in charge of actually writing the rules needs to rethink their career choice. They need to hire a technical writer.
 
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Rolfe Bergstrom
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logris wrote:

Except they will be making it more confusing by actually printing "N/A" instead of "No". Just for move cards. Adding another term that means the same thing is a big no-no when you're writing a ruleset because people naturally wonder why and how they differ.


I agree whole-heartedly. The "N/A" is such a bad idea. Those cards should say "No".

logris wrote:

The other crime against humanity they about to perpitrate is that they will have an entirely separate move style in the Darkness Cycle that (temporarily) interrupts your current move style in your Hero Cycle. This is also confirmed by them in Kickstarter Update #114, where they say the "Standing Still" movement icon in Darkness still stands because they will be using different movement in future cards.


I think (hope) you might be reading something into what they said that wasn't intended. An exact quote of what they said in the kickstarter update is:

"You won’t find us changing the movement column on the Interrupts because we use this design space in the Journeyman and higher cards."

I can think of several ways that "use this design space" might be interpreted:

1) "On future cards, your movement type during the DC might be different than your movement type during the HC." As you suggest.
-or-
2) "We'll have different movement symbols on future cards, because the expansion introduces a fifth movement category."
-or-
3) "There's some subtle way that 'N/A' is different from 'No', and its hard to explain the difference until you see the higher-level cards whose design utilizes the differences."
-or-
4) "We'll literally be using that space on the card for something else. It might not be movement related. Since movement is irrelevant during the DC, that's basically wasted space on any interrupt card. If, however, we change all the existing interrupts to say 'Yes' four times like people are requesting, we'll no longer have unused space down the side of the card."

Personally, I think interpretation #4 is a lot more likely than any of the others. #3 seem less likely, but is not impossible given Mercs track record with rules clarity. #2 is the least likely interpretation, but could actually be cool if done right. #1 would be terribly painful, but I'm optimistic that it's not at all what they meant.
 
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Jarad Bond
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You are absolutely right about not knowing what they mean by that quote. I also hope they will make a good design decision here, but my gut feeling says they won't.

My good-natured debate of these responses will use common sense and logic, but I fully understand that my following basic assumption could be wrong. I'm gonna go with it anyway:

I assume their statement means they leave the "standing" movement type as-is for the DC. Otherwise, they would have said so, right? They would tell us it will change, but, yadda yadda...

Then,

2) If the fifth movement category is Interrupt, great! But they could/would have just told us this, so probably not. If the fifth is something else, we're right back to having separate movement in DC.

3) Still... there is already a different movement type in DC right now (and it's not 'N/A', because they explicitly stated how they planned on using that)

4) I would love this! If it were the case, then they should/would have stated they were going to change the movement section and that it would be used for non-movement related things. I'm skeptical.

I admit that I am trying to whip up the discussion a little on this issue wherever possible by being somewhat over-dramatic. There is a lot of time left before reprinting, but I want them to realize that they're not fixing the problem if this is what they intend. There is time to change their design! I have PM'ed them once with some of my concerns, but I'm not going to spam them and it may have been lost or thrown in the round file. The only other way to be heard is to have a lot of voices debating.
 
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