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MERCS: Recon – Counter Threat» Forums » General

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Aaron Phillips
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I am trying to decide if this is the game for me. Watching the gameplay videos, the game seems really interesting, but I just can't decide.

Problems I see:
*Lack of solo support - if I get this, I will almost always be playing solo. To get solo support, I have to buy a $10 add-on. The solo support addon as the description is written only adds solo support for the two base games. With no solo support for the expansion and solo support being an addon instead of base game content makes me worry about how well solo play will be supported, and if it will receive any future support

*Fiddliness - There seems to be a lot of moving/tracking of stats for multiple characters (Priority, CP, Wounds). Do all of the "fiddly" elements add something, or do they just increase fiddliness to no real benefit.

*Challenge - In the gameplay video, there seemed to be very little difficulty. Even though the players lost, it was their own fault for blowing up the room. The AI didn't really seem to threaten the players at all. With this as an example, it seems like even AI movement just adds fiddliness again?

Anybody have some insight? I want to want this game, but I'm a little more gunshy about kickstarters than I used to be.
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Chris Smith
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As I understood it the solo sheets are just to condense the information from multiple player boards. I.e. you should be able to play solo without them, it's just a bit more annoying to track it with multiple boards.

Not really got an opinion on fiddly-ness, as I understand it there's a reason to it all. Perhaps it could be made simpler but that's sacrificing theme, humm.

I don't think we'll be able to tell challenge from one video, but I do hope that difficulty-escalation methods for the game are expanded upon throughout the campaign so we know what to expect. The AI movements do look pretty awkward, but that's to maintain a fog of war element (i.e. you don't know who's around the corner till you see them). I quite like that aspect but I see why it would be annoying ^^.

Someone else probably has more useful answers than me but I wanted to give something of a response at least ^^.
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Kevin Outlaw
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cgrater wrote:


Problems I see:
*Lack of solo support - if I get this, I will almost always be playing solo. To get solo support, I have to buy a $10 add-on. The solo support addon as the description is written only adds solo support for the two base games. With no solo support for the expansion and solo support being an addon instead of base game content makes me worry about how well solo play will be supported, and if it will receive any future support



The game plays solo out of the box, according to the designers.

I think the add-on is a sheet to handle a whole team without worrying about individual character cards.

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Aaron Phillips
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Smoothsmith wrote:

I don't think we'll be able to tell challenge from one video, but I do hope that difficulty-escalation methods for the game are expanded upon throughout the campaign so we know what to expect. The AI movements do look pretty awkward, but that's to maintain a fog of war element (i.e. you don't know who's around the corner till you see them). I quite like that aspect but I see why it would be annoying ^^.


Thanks for the input on solo support. Makes more sense - the addon is for "convenient" solo play. "Functional" solo play exists in the box.

Maintaining fog of war makes thematic sense to me - my concern based on the gameplay video is on how well it is implemented.

From the one video, my concern is how much of a threat the enemies/AI really are. If the enemies and AI are not as big a threat to the players as their own mistakes, then all the fiddliness of token movement rules and fog of war would just add frustration to a minor gameplay element.

If the video is not really representative of actual gameplay, then I hope we get to see more and really get an idea of how the game will play out "on average".
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Kevin Outlaw
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cgrater wrote:


From the one video, my concern is how much of a threat the enemies/AI really are. If the enemies and AI are not as big a threat to the players as their own mistakes, then all the fiddliness of token movement rules and fog of war would just add frustration to a minor gameplay element.

If the video is not really representative of actual gameplay, then I hope we get to see more and really get an idea of how the game will play out "on average".


The video does show the opening turns of a game when the security is low - the game uses an escalation system, so as the game progresses, the challenge ramps up.
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Kelly N.
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Excellent questions Aaron.

I will be subscribing to this thread to see what the designers have to say about fiddle playing and challenge. The solo concern certainly has been answered.

I'm backing right now at 120, but the 200 is calling me if this game and the whole tabletop thing seems worth it. However, that is a ton-o-money.
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Aaron Phillips
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To clarify my stance a little,

There is a very fine distinction between a "fiddly" game and a "complex" one. To me:

An element that adds "Fiddliness" is one that increases the time or mental power required to complete an action or game phase without a commensurate increase in the "value" of the game experience. A fiddly element can be removed without significantly impacting gameplay. An example would be if they suddenly announced that each member of the MERCS squad would have to track ammo expended.

An element that adds "Complexity" increases the time or mental power required to complete an action or game phase, but also proportionally enhances the gameplay experience. Removing a complexity element would either significantly detract from the gameplay experience or change the basic nature of the game. (Imagine a dungeon crawler without some mode of hit point tracking - invulnerable heroes would greatly alter the nature of the game).

I am not opposed to a "complex" game, but do not really want another "fiddly" game.
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Brian Shotton
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My answer to the fiddly question would be only slightly and in the first Security level.

The first two turns can be a little fiddly when there are a lot of agent blips at the beginning. Within the first two rounds, there should be a third (to half) less blips.

After that I feel it is SUPER streamlined. It moves very quickly.
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Rob Davis
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sabbat00 wrote:
I'm backing right now at 120, but the 200 is calling me if this game and the whole tabletop thing seems worth it. However, that is a ton-o-money.


The extra $80 is a bargain if you're looking to get into the minis game. Otherwise you're looking at $65 for a single faction's worth of minis and cards, not including the rule book.
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Jake Rose
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davro33 wrote:
sabbat00 wrote:
I'm backing right now at 120, but the 200 is calling me if this game and the whole tabletop thing seems worth it. However, that is a ton-o-money.


The extra $80 is a bargain if you're looking to get into the minis game. Otherwise you're looking at $65 for a single faction's worth of minis and cards, not including the rule book.


Not if you are getting the faction in one of the Recon boxes and just adding $8 for the cards.
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Ukko Kaarto
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BShotton wrote:
My answer to the fiddly question would be only slightly and in the first Security level.

The first two turns can be a little fiddly when there are a lot of agent blips at the beginning. Within the first two rounds, there should be a third (to half) less blips.

After that I feel it is SUPER streamlined. It moves very quickly.


And what about the challenge?
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Kevin Outlaw
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MrTetsuo wrote:
My biggest concern with this game is the apparent lack of campaign mode as well as no sense of character progression. I might have completely misunderstood the posted videos or the rule book, but it seems that each game is self-contained and nothing is carried from one to the next. While it's very tempting for being a co-op/single player skirmish game, the price tag is a bit on the higher end of the scale for what it seems to offer.


I honestly don't need every game to offer a campaign. And I don't think a high price tag means a campaign SHOULD be included.

Space Hulk, Mansions of Madness, Gears of War, Dark Darker Darkest, Zombicide - these are all "one shot" games in my household that game with steep prices.

Of course, to each their own, and if you really want a campaign then it will probably be a deal-breaker if their isn't one.
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Freelance Police
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In the MYTH campaign, they showed more gameplay videos as the KS progressed.

You *will* be able to buy this game from the OLGS, and will only "need" one set. Miniatures Market is selling the MYTH base game at $67.50, and the base-game only pledge was $75.

Alternately, just wait a few weeks to see how the stretch goals go.

fwiw, At the $200 level, you're getting two more games for $80. Considering that a single MERCS miniature starter cost $50, that's a good price. You're getting the plastic equivalent of five (?) starters at the $200 level. Unfortunately, I don't think MERCS plays solo.

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Deansy Von ThunderLizard
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Sam and Max wrote:
Unfortunately, I don't think MERCS plays solo.
The Tabletop version doesn't but RECON does.
 
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Michael Callahan
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cgrater wrote:


*Challenge - In the gameplay video, there seemed to be very little difficulty. Even though the players lost, it was their own fault for blowing up the room. The AI didn't really seem to threaten the players at all. With this as an example, it seems like even AI movement just adds fiddliness again?


I don't think that we got a great look at the penalties for getting too aggressive...... the way things read,... it sounds like the faster you go, the more stuff comes at you,... the longer you take,.. the more stuff comes at you,.... (I know it can't be quite like that, but it looks like there are penalties for both)
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Brian Shotton
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Challenging...yes. In fact a local beta group has yet to beat it (and they have played 4 times).

We tend to win slightly more than we lose, but it is always tight.
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Kevin Outlaw
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MrTetsuo wrote:
RedMonkeyBoy wrote:

I honestly don't need every game to offer a campaign. And I don't think a high price tag means a campaign SHOULD be included.

Space Hulk, Mansions of Madness, Gears of War, Dark Darker Darkest, Zombicide - these are all "one shot" games in my household that game with steep prices.

Of course, to each their own, and if you really want a campaign then it will probably be a deal-breaker if their isn't one.


As you wisely said, to each their own. For USD 120 I would expect a bit more than what similar co-op titles seem to offer for a fraction of the price (including all the ones you mentioned).



$120 is about £70, which is less than Space Hulk 3rd Edition cost me, and I paid $100 for Dark Darker Darkest. Mansions of Madness is a £60 game in the UK. So, those games are all in the same ballpark price range.

Not trying to change your mind. Just bitching about the price of games
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Ben Nietzel
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My question for the Mercs team would be this:

I've backed Myth and been super happy. I want to back Recon. That said, if both are co-op, theme aside, what's my incentive to back Recon. By that I mean, Myth look so good and fun, I feel Recon is going to have to really have something that seperates it from the pack in order for it to see table time, rather than Myth. Is there enough difference there to make them both feel like viable options to own, or am I better off saving my dollars for the Myth expansion KS?

Clearly the team must think so, but my question to the would then be: What is that?

Really on the fence, and looking for reasons to back

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Steve Hajducko
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Quote:
Clearly the team must think so, but my question to the would then be: What is that?


Well, from what I can, it comes down to 2 things.

Theme and playstyle.

The theme, of course, is obvious. Either you like the theme or you don't. If you don't want a sci-fi/cyberpunk theme, then don't bother.

The bigger factor here is playstyle. Myth is a very open, free-form campaign style game. Recon is a very structured, non-campaign style game.

I think the things I'm worried about is:

a) How different are the characters? I watched the playthru videos and the characters really don't seem very unique. Maybe I'm missing somewhere that they show all the player boards?

b) How do the different factions play? What makes the Kemvar different than the CCC?

In Myth, the character uniqueness is pretty obvious ( completely different looking characters, different weapons, etc ) - I think it's a little bit of a harder sell in Recon ( everyone is wearing a uniform, we all have guns, etc. )




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Zheng Xuan
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Nitz wrote:
My question for the Mercs team would be this:

I've backed Myth and been super happy. I want to back Recon. That said, if both are co-op, theme aside, what's my incentive to back Recon. By that I mean, Myth look so good and fun, I feel Recon is going to have to really have something that seperates it from the pack in order for it to see table time, rather than Myth. Is there enough difference there to make them both feel like viable options to own, or am I better off saving my dollars for the Myth expansion KS?

Clearly the team must think so, but my question to the would then be: What is that?

Really on the fence, and looking for reasons to back



That's an easy one. Play style is the major difference. Myth is similar to a dungeoncrawlish game. Recon is more like co-op space hulk. They play very differently and have almost nothing in common other than the fact that they are designed and produced by the same people. It is like asking should you stop playing pandemic after getting myth because they are both co-op games.
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