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Subject: A question of wording [Snoop and Jinteki's Chronos Protocol] rss

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Caribou
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So, I must admit I am a little confused after comparing wordings on 2 cards: Snoop and Jinteki's Chronos Protocol - Selective Mind-mapping.

Snoop paid ability wrote:
Hosted power counter: Reveal all cards in the Runner's grip. Trash 1 of those cards.


Jinteki's Chronos Protocol ability wrote:
For the first net damage the Runner suffers each turn, you may look at the Runner's grip and select the card that is trashed.


I assume that both abilities do more or less the same. They were designed to allow the Corp to see what cards are in the Runner's grip and then choose one of them which is to be trashed.

At the beginning I thought that Chronos Protocol is better worded (especially with the fragment allowing you to "select the card that is trashed") but then I started to think what it exactly means to "look at the Runner's grip"? When I play as the Corp I am constantly looking at the Runner's grip but I do not know what cards it contains because all I can see are the backs of the cards. And I always select the card to be trashed when I deal net/meat/brain damage. But it does not mean that I know what card is being trashed until it hits Runner's heap.

That made me think that Snoop's wording must be better, because "reveal" does not leave any doubts about what it does. But then I saw that "Reveal all cards in the Runner's grip" is one sentence and "Trash 1 of those cards" is another one. So I started to think that it could be interpreted as the ability of gaining the knowledge about all the cards in Runner's hand and then the ability to thrash one of those cards, but without the ability of looking at their face during the selection of card which is to be trashed.

So, what is the difference between "reveal" and "look at"?
Why the wordings on both cards differ so much?
Why the wording on Snoop does not read like: "Reveal all cards in the Runner's grip and trash 1 of those cards" but is divided into two sentences?
 
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Chris Wood
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I assume they are the same, and before "Chronos Protocol" gets put into play it would get re-worded.

I think you are reading too much into it otherwise.
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Caribou
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Taloncarde wrote:
I think you are reading too much into it otherwise.

Well, I am more than 100% sure you are right but that is what my mind does when reading. I can't get rid of this annoying habit of over-analyzing each and every sentence unless I read a pure fiction.
cry
That's the inevitable consequence of selective mind-mapping. whistle
 
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Andrew Keddie
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Based on Woman in the Red Dress compared to Deep Thought:

Reveal means you BOTH get to see the card(s), look at means only the controlling player gets to do so.

Of course, as they apply to the Grip, the distinction is meaningless unless FFG decide to release a card which can prevent Runner cards being revealed.

I highly doubt it though, and I expect this was a simple oversight in templating.
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Chris Wood
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Ha or maybe FFG will release a card that forces the runner to play without seeing their grip?
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Caribou
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Yeah! Blind play FTW!
 
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Lech Karol Pawłaszek
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TheCaribou wrote:
Yeah! Blind play FTW!


...so I'll play... the second card from the right... and it is... um... Hard at Work?! How the hell... I didn't put this card into my deck! I thought that Chronos Protocol TRASHES cards!! Argh...

Jinteki Mind Games!
 
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Troy Jennings
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Snoop is worded using standard game concepts: 'Reveal' is one such concept. This is because Snoop's ability is self-contained, and should be resolved using standard game concepts. Reveal hand, Trash one card.

Jinteki Chronos' wording is because the effect is essentially an errata to the rules regarding Net Damage: Instead of 'Discard a card at random', it becomes 'Look at the Runner's Hand and choose which card is discarded'. It's not technically 'Reveal the Runner's Hand', and if cards that prevent Reveal effects come into play at some point in the future, they won't work against it.
 
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Caribou
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Trithne wrote:
It's not technically 'Reveal the Runner's Hand', and if cards that prevent Reveal effects come into play at some point in the future, they won't work against it.

Well, I think that technically IT IS the act of revealing the Runner's grip, because both players get to see the cards.
I wouldn't also see any problem with any future cards that would prevent *reveal* effects since FFG could use their standard wording "(cannot be prevented)".
 
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