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Peter O'Hanraha-Hanrahan
United Kingdom
Bristol
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Simple question, really. Who pays the 3% to BGG for a Marketplace transaction? The FAQ seems to suggest that the seller does, but I've just bought something where the seller added the 3% to his shipping charges, thus passing the fee on to me. It's only pennies, I guess, but some clarification would be appreciated.
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You can't handle the truth?
Canada
Edmonton
Alberta
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Fruit Eating Bear wrote: Simple question, really. Who pays the 3% to BGG for a Marketplace transaction? The FAQ seems to suggest that the seller does, but I've just bought something where the seller added the 3% to his shipping charges, thus passing the fee on to me. It's only pennies, I guess, but some clarification would be appreciated. The seller will be invoiced for it, so they need to pay it to BGG.
As for the BGG terms of service, I don't know if they mention anything on allowing sellers to pass the cost on to the buyer.
As someone who has sold a few games through the BGG marketplace, I can say that I always payed them as a seller, and I never added that to my game prices.
In my opinion, I think that's a little shady that this was tacked on to your cost, and not at all the standard way to do things.
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Jonathan Bailey-Jones
United Kingdom
Somerset
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As someone who has sold a lot and bought a lot, in my case 100% of the time it has been the seller who pays, however if it was in the terms and conditions of the sale I see nothing wrong with passing it on if the buyer agrees.
Jonathan
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Peter O'Hanraha-Hanrahan
United Kingdom
Bristol
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Thanks for the replies. I didn't explicitly agree because I only noticed it on the invoice, but I'll know to look out for it in the future.
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Michael Hovan
United States
Elkhart
Indiana
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It could be that they were passing on Paypal fees if you used that for payment. That is against the Paypal rules. It is worth checking on. I would say this is a buyer worth avoiding also.
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Dangerous Partners
United Kingdom
Swindon
Wiltshire
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mlhovan wrote:
It could be that they were passing on Paypal fees if you used that for payment. That is against the Paypal rules. It is worth checking on. I would say this is a buyer worth avoiding also.
Not if you state in your conditions that the buyer pays any transaction fees. Paypal cannot decide for you how to sell your product - the seller basically says this is the price I want and you need to give me this amount for it, how you do it is up to you but I have to receive this amount if you want my product.
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Canada
London
Ontario
"Federer is Betterer"
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If you are buying a game listed in the BGG Marketplace they have listed it for a set price. When you buy they are suppose to confirm total cost including shipping. If you add shipping price to the price of the listed game you get the total cost. If the two don't match then something is wrong. Why would you pay more for a game than the confirmed cost of the game + shipping?
If someone wants to charge you a commission for buying then you can just refuse to buy. If you decide to pay more ... well then you really only have yourself to blame.
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Peter O'Hanraha-Hanrahan
United Kingdom
Bristol
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jasss333 wrote: If you are buying a game listed in the BGG Marketplace they have listed it for a set price. When you buy they are suppose to confirm total cost including shipping. If you add shipping price to the price of the listed game you get the total cost. If the two don't match then something is wrong. Why would you pay more for a game than the confirmed cost of the game + shipping?
If someone wants to charge you a commission for buying then you can just refuse to buy. If you decide to pay more ... well then you really only have yourself to blame.
I'm fine with that. As I said, I'll know next time. In your example above, though, what if the shipping costs included the BGG commission as one total? This was the case in my purchase. I don't know how much something is to mail, so for all I know the price is correct.
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Dangerous Partners
United Kingdom
Swindon
Wiltshire
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Fruit Eating Bear wrote: jasss333 wrote: If you are buying a game listed in the BGG Marketplace they have listed it for a set price. When you buy they are suppose to confirm total cost including shipping. If you add shipping price to the price of the listed game you get the total cost. If the two don't match then something is wrong. Why would you pay more for a game than the confirmed cost of the game + shipping?
If someone wants to charge you a commission for buying then you can just refuse to buy. If you decide to pay more ... well then you really only have yourself to blame. I'm fine with that. As I said, I'll know next time. In your example above, though, what if the shipping costs included the BGG commission as one total? This was the case in my purchase. I don't know how much something is to mail, so for all I know the price is correct.
If the seller gave you a 'shipping and handling/other costs' price and you accepted then there is nothing wrong, you were obviously happy to pay that amount. You buy from a retail shop and they have all sorts of things built into the price you finally get charged - where's the difference, you still agree to pay the final price at the end ?
Whether you like the amount you paid and choose not to buy from them again, and also the make other buyers aware of the costs (truthfully) is also your choice (and perfectly OK).
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You can't handle the truth?
Canada
Edmonton
Alberta
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BeerAndBoard wrote: mlhovan wrote:
It could be that they were passing on Paypal fees if you used that for payment. That is against the Paypal rules. It is worth checking on. I would say this is a buyer worth avoiding also.
Not if you state in your conditions that the buyer pays any transaction fees. Paypal cannot decide for you how to sell your product - the seller basically says this is the price I want and you need to give me this amount for it, how you do it is up to you but I have to receive this amount if you want my product.
It's better to actually look things up, than to just state things like they are fact.
PayPal ToS - Last Update: October 10, 2013
"4.7 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for non-PayPal transactions."
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YaVerOt YaVerOt
United States
Arvada
Colorado
Armchair warriors often fail, and we've been poisoned by these fairy tales.
Aoi Aoi toki ga toke dasheta.
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That verbage has been there since PayPal was part of X.com years before eBay bought PayPal. It is possible it hasn't always been there, but it has practically always been there; although where it lands in the agreement does shift.
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Dangerous Partners
United Kingdom
Swindon
Wiltshire
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crambaza wrote: BeerAndBoard wrote: mlhovan wrote:
It could be that they were passing on Paypal fees if you used that for payment. That is against the Paypal rules. It is worth checking on. I would say this is a buyer worth avoiding also.
Not if you state in your conditions that the buyer pays any transaction fees. Paypal cannot decide for you how to sell your product - the seller basically says this is the price I want and you need to give me this amount for it, how you do it is up to you but I have to receive this amount if you want my product. It's better to actually look things up, than to just state things like they are fact. PayPal ToS - Last Update: October 10, 2013 "4.7 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for non-PayPal transactions."
And practically unenforceable.
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Canada
London
Ontario
"Federer is Betterer"
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Fruit Eating Bear wrote: I'm fine with that. As I said, I'll know next time. In your example above, though, what if the shipping costs included the BGG commission as one total? This was the case in my purchase. I don't know how much something is to mail, so for all I know the price is correct.
I guess I would say that if they state "shipping and handling" when they initially bill you ... then that would imply some sort of surcharge they have applied. If they only stated "shipping" ... which is what the majority of BGGer's do then there should not be any additional fee on top of the actual cost of shipping. So I guess I would tell you to enquire if they stated the former and you did not think the price quote is competitive.
I can pretty much calculate shipping costs for most places in the world because shipping calculators for most countries post offices are located online. That is certainly true for Canada Post and the US Postal Service etc. YOu can get weights and dimensions of most games from either the BGG database or Amazon's game listings. (add 3/4 lb's or 0.35 kilo to the weight and 1 inch or 2.5cm in each dimension for packaging estimates). Once you've bought or shipped a few games you get a feeling for what is an appropriate. Again ... if it seems like too much you can always say no.
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Fruit Eating Bear wrote: Simple question, really. Who pays the 3% to BGG for a Marketplace transaction? The FAQ seems to suggest that the seller does, but I've just bought something where the seller added the 3% to his shipping charges, thus passing the fee on to me. It's only pennies, I guess, but some clarification would be appreciated.
Perhaps you should provide a comment in their marketplace feedback to let other buyers know that the individual uses this dishonest tactic.
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Kenny VenOsdel
United States
Saint Paul
Minnesota
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Fruit Eating Bear wrote: Simple question, really. Who pays the 3% to BGG for a Marketplace transaction? The FAQ seems to suggest that the seller does, but I've just bought something where the seller added the 3% to his shipping charges, thus passing the fee on to me. It's only pennies, I guess, but some clarification would be appreciated.
The seller pays the physical amount. If you approach selling a game as "i need X amount of profit to make this sale worthwhile" then there isn't a difference if they roll the 3% into the cost of the game so that a $30 sale is listed as $33 in the marketplace. If they add it afterwards there is more of a problem and if they didn't state that they were doing this I would contact BGG about it. Even though you could cancel your transaction it still wastes peoples time if they buy a game only to set it all up and find out the seller wants to add another 3% on.
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Ian Klinck
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
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I always price my games so that I will be satisfied with what I get after the BGG & PayPal fees are paid.
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Nathan
United Kingdom
London
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Yeah, build in costs otherwise your customer gets hit with a higher price. Nothing wrong with taking fees into account, but tacking them on afterwards is not cool.
Let BGG know and leave feedback regarding it so others might be forewarned.
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Aaron Morgan
United States
Sacramento
California
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kvenosdel wrote: there isn't a difference if they roll the 3% into the cost of the game so that a $30 sale is listed as $33 in the marketplace
That's a 10% markup.
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Michael Aldridge
United States
Nashville
Tennessee
Infinite Dreams Gaming
Warehouse 13: The Board Game
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BeerAndBoard wrote: crambaza wrote: BeerAndBoard wrote: mlhovan wrote:
It could be that they were passing on Paypal fees if you used that for payment. That is against the Paypal rules. It is worth checking on. I would say this is a buyer worth avoiding also.
Not if you state in your conditions that the buyer pays any transaction fees. Paypal cannot decide for you how to sell your product - the seller basically says this is the price I want and you need to give me this amount for it, how you do it is up to you but I have to receive this amount if you want my product. It's better to actually look things up, than to just state things like they are fact. PayPal ToS - Last Update: October 10, 2013 "4.7 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for non-PayPal transactions." And practically unenforceable.
...until someone complains and you get your account locked.
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Herb
United States
Georgia
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LOL - Of course the buyer really pays. What is being discussed is how transparent the payment is.
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Alysa
Netherlands
Zoetermeer area
Garfield
Never trust a smiling Garfield!
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jasss333 wrote: I can pretty much calculate shipping costs for most places in the world because shipping calculators for most countries post offices are located online. That is certainly true for Canada Post and the US Postal Service etc. YOu can get weights and dimensions of most games from either the BGG database or Amazon's game listings. (add 3/4 lb's or 0.35 kilo to the weight and 1 inch or 2.5cm in each dimension for packaging estimates). Once you've bought or shipped a few games you get a feeling for what is an appropriate. Again ... if it seems like too much you can always say no.
That doesn't really tell you the actual costs the sender had to pay to send it tho!
What if they had to buy a box to send it? Other packing materials are always free too huh? What if they have a box for it that is bigger than the item they are sending and it puts it in a different price bracket? (some parcel delivery services use measurements instead of weight to determine price) Etc., etc.
The paypal rules about not being allowed to add the processing costs for offering paypal as a payment option is only for businesses, not for private use and in some countries it's just always added and there's no option in all countries to make it a gift payment (which makes sure the Paypal fee is not added).
When I sell something I will offer Paypal as a payment option but will also list others that either have no costs to anyone or only costs for the one who pays. If the buyer wants to use Paypal I will surely mention that it means there will be a % on top...
If I put an item up on BGG the 3% for BGG is already in the price, the transaction costs won't be...
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Alysa
Netherlands
Zoetermeer area
Garfield
Never trust a smiling Garfield!
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BosonMichael wrote: BeerAndBoard wrote: crambaza wrote: BeerAndBoard wrote: mlhovan wrote:
It could be that they were passing on Paypal fees if you used that for payment. That is against the Paypal rules. It is worth checking on. I would say this is a buyer worth avoiding also.
Not if you state in your conditions that the buyer pays any transaction fees. Paypal cannot decide for you how to sell your product - the seller basically says this is the price I want and you need to give me this amount for it, how you do it is up to you but I have to receive this amount if you want my product. It's better to actually look things up, than to just state things like they are fact. PayPal ToS - Last Update: October 10, 2013 "4.7 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for non-PayPal transactions." And practically unenforceable. ...until someone complains and you get your account locked.
... which they usually do for companies yes, I doubt they will do so for individuals.
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Michael Aldridge
United States
Nashville
Tennessee
Infinite Dreams Gaming
Warehouse 13: The Board Game
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Aenea wrote: BosonMichael wrote: BeerAndBoard wrote: crambaza wrote: BeerAndBoard wrote: mlhovan wrote:
It could be that they were passing on Paypal fees if you used that for payment. That is against the Paypal rules. It is worth checking on. I would say this is a buyer worth avoiding also.
Not if you state in your conditions that the buyer pays any transaction fees. Paypal cannot decide for you how to sell your product - the seller basically says this is the price I want and you need to give me this amount for it, how you do it is up to you but I have to receive this amount if you want my product. It's better to actually look things up, than to just state things like they are fact. PayPal ToS - Last Update: October 10, 2013 "4.7 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for non-PayPal transactions." And practically unenforceable. ...until someone complains and you get your account locked. ... which they usually do for companies yes, I doubt they will do so for individuals.
They've done it to individuals, so it's not a hypothetical situation.
Not saying I agree or disagree with their policy... but it's their site. If you want to use their site, gotta follow their rules.
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Canada
London
Ontario
"Federer is Betterer"
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Aenea wrote: jasss333 wrote: I can pretty much calculate shipping costs for most places in the world because shipping calculators for most countries post offices are located online. That is certainly true for Canada Post and the US Postal Service etc. YOu can get weights and dimensions of most games from either the BGG database or Amazon's game listings. (add 3/4 lb's or 0.35 kilo to the weight and 1 inch or 2.5cm in each dimension for packaging estimates). Once you've bought or shipped a few games you get a feeling for what is an appropriate. Again ... if it seems like too much you can always say no. That doesn't really tell you the actual costs the sender had to pay to send it tho! What if they had to buy a box to send it? Other packing materials are always free too huh? What if they have a box for it that is bigger than the item they are sending and it puts it in a different price bracket? (some parcel delivery services use measurements instead of weight to determine price) Etc., etc.
... while what you are saying is true, the point I was trying to make is that it is possible to assess the actual cost of mailing a package out. A higher charge than that are extra's related to all these other reasons. It allows you to gauge whether shipping costs are reasonable or not reasonable ... and that really is the point of it all ... isn't it.
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Alysa
Netherlands
Zoetermeer area
Garfield
Never trust a smiling Garfield!
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jasss333 wrote: Aenea wrote: jasss333 wrote: I can pretty much calculate shipping costs for most places in the world because shipping calculators for most countries post offices are located online. That is certainly true for Canada Post and the US Postal Service etc. YOu can get weights and dimensions of most games from either the BGG database or Amazon's game listings. (add 3/4 lb's or 0.35 kilo to the weight and 1 inch or 2.5cm in each dimension for packaging estimates). Once you've bought or shipped a few games you get a feeling for what is an appropriate. Again ... if it seems like too much you can always say no. That doesn't really tell you the actual costs the sender had to pay to send it tho! What if they had to buy a box to send it? Other packing materials are always free too huh? What if they have a box for it that is bigger than the item they are sending and it puts it in a different price bracket? (some parcel delivery services use measurements instead of weight to determine price) Etc., etc. ... while what you are saying is true, the point I was trying to make is that it is possible to assess the actual cost of mailing a package out. A higher charge than that are extra's related to all these other reasons. It allows you to gauge whether shipping costs are reasonable or not reasonable ... and that really is the point of it all ... isn't it.
If someone is only willing to pay for shipping costs and not packing material I will just tape the box up and slap a sticker on it with the person's address
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