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Subject: Over or under, is this a common card mechanic? rss

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David SL
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I know Ninjato does it, and I think it's a great idea. I've come up with a game which uses the same idea - to 'beat' a certain type of card, you either have to place cards which amount to more than or less than the value of the card. Not either/or, just one option. I've come up with a game that uses this mechanic where 'good' cards need to be 'beaten' by at least one card less than it, and 'bad' cards by card(s) that equal more than it.

Is this common?
 
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sunday silence
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what does that even mean "not either or." YOu can be higher or lower but not either or. I dont understand.

ALso what does "one card less" mean? How can you be a card less? sorry I dont know ninjato, but maybe you could explain this a little more?
 
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Lucas Smith
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these symbols used in IT might help here:

XOR means either A or B but NOT both! possible results: A; B

OR means either A or B or both! possible results: A; B; A+B


I assume you meant XOR, but sadly I have to agree, the description is a bit unprecise.
 
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David SL
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Sorry, I typed this in a rush! I'll explain.

Basically in Ninjato you can choose to attack a guard using either stealth or force. If you choose to go the stealth route, you must play a numbered card LOWER than the number on the stealth of the guard. If you choose to go the force route, you must play a numbered card HIGHER than the number on the force of the guard. It's a very simple mechanic but I like the idea.

Basically I'm talking about where you 'beat' a card with a number by using one or more cards to either go LOWER than that number, or HIGHER.

So if you had a card with worth 7 points that needed to be beaten by a higher number, you could play cards that add up to 8 or more, or just one card if it is worth 8 or more. If you had a card worth 3 points that needed to be beaten by a lower number, you would need to play a card worth 1 or 2 points.

When I say 'not either/or' I mean you can only choose one option, not go EITHER higher OR lower.
 
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Kai Scheuer
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Apart from being common, the fact that you can combine cards for results makes it rather dull as the decision making seems to lack.

Check out Button Men for an interesting mechanic. Even though it's a dicegame, the same works with cards as well:

EITHER combine two or more cards to equal the value of an opposing card (and thus beat it) OR use exactly ONE card with a value higher than an opposing card (and thus beating it).

Just a thought



Kind regards,
Kai
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sunday silence
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can you tell us in Ninjato, whether you know the strength of the guard BEFORE you attack him? I think that would make quite a bit of difference. So you try to predict whether the attack will in fact be higher or lower.

I think if you didnt know his strength, this might be a very interesting mechanic.
 
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David SL
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schattentanz wrote:
Apart from being common, the fact that you can combine cards for results makes it rather dull as the decision making seems to lack.

Check out Button Men for an interesting mechanic. Even though it's a dicegame, the same works with cards as well:

EITHER combine two or more cards to equal the value of an opposing card (and thus beat it) OR use exactly ONE card with a value higher than an opposing card (and thus beating it).

Just a thought



Kind regards,
Kai


Thanks for the feedback. That's the trick, isn't it - getting from a fairly simple mechanic to something interesting. The way it would work in my game is that every player would only have a set number of cards each turn. At the moment it is 7. Basically, in a 4 player game, every card would be turned face down. You would then turn the first card face up, and have to try to beat it, using however many cards you want. But you still have 3 cards to go. So once that's beaten, you turn over the next one, try to beat it with your remaining cards, then the 3rd card, and so on. It's all about decision making based upon chance.

What you say about using 2 cards or one card is what I was thinking, too, but then I decided that if the players only have a limited number of cards to 'bet' with, it makes it a lot more tactical. I do have some other rules to supplement this idea, as well.

Thanks again!
 
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David SL
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sundaysilence wrote:
can you tell us in Ninjato, whether you know the strength of the guard BEFORE you attack him? I think that would make quite a bit of difference. So you try to predict whether the attack will in fact be higher or lower.

I think if you didnt know his strength, this might be a very interesting mechanic.


I haven't played Ninjato, so I only know what I know from reviews, but it seems like a fairly straightforward mechanic.

Basically, you have a face up guard. He has two values, an attack value, and a stealth value. Players will have a few numbered cards (I think it's five). Basically, you choose at the beginning how you are going to attack. I believe you have to remain in that 'stance' for each guard that follows. You play a numbered card higher than, or lower than (depending on attack or stealth mode) the number on that guard. If you 'beat' it, you turn another guard over, and do the same. You can stop at any time, but the idea is to dispatch the guards so that you can steal treasure. It's a clever mechanic, and one that I've not seen before.
 
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Anthony Simons
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Yes, that pretty much covers the use of this in Ninjato; as for the use of this elsewhere, I don't think I've seen it used in the same way as this. I do know there are quite a few card games where you can choose to go over or under (David & Goliath for example), but this is usually accompanied by fixed rules for who takes the trick and who gets the cards or some such system.
Arguably this is exactly what is happening in Ninjato; the difference is you're playing several tricks in succession against a blind hand and you cannot change tack.
 
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