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Twilight Imperium (Third Edition)» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Are the Yssaril really Overpowered? rss

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Tom N
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We've played TI3 9 times now, each game with 6 people. All 6 have played each game and we're all very experienced gamers. Each game a different one of us has been the Yssaril, and one person has been them twice, and one person 3 times. And as of yet, no one has been able to win with them. And only in our first game were they even close. Hacan have won 4 different games (4 different players). So far Hacan are the only race with more than one win. Other wins were: Jol Nar, Winnu, L1Z1X, Arborec, and Mentak.

We've all read a ton of strategy and we've yet to understand why everyone thinks they are so insanely powerful. The two carriers and XRD seems to be a much bigger advantage than the skipping turns. And the tech that lets you steal an action only brings other players wrath down upon you.

What are we missing? Why are some people banning this race? Why do people think they are so insanely powerful?
 
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Josh
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The "fake pass" allows the Gollums to react/capitalize on what the other players have done. Overpowered? Dunno. But a really good race? Oh yeah.
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Will Thibault
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They also have a lot of abilities that seriously drag the game out - their racial tech that lets them steal AC, frex. Even if they weren't as good as they are, that alone would be problematic.
 
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Lance Harrop
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In a three player game I fended off the determined assault of two experienced players to win with the Yssaril.

I don't discount them.
 
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Tom N
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Leifr wrote:
In a three player game I fended off the determined assault of two experienced players to win with the Yssaril.

I don't discount them.


Can you give me three situations where their skip ability is really powerful?
 
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Aaron Bredon
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Zeromage wrote:
Leifr wrote:
In a three player game I fended off the determined assault of two experienced players to win with the Yssaril.

I don't discount them.


Can you give me three situations where their skip ability is really powerful?


1. Fulfilling objectives with military requirements like controlling planets adjacent to home systems by waiting until the players have passed before taking the planet.

2. Delaying activation of your strategy card until other players have already passed.

3. Forcing other players to spend action cards and command counters to stall by pretending to do either of the above.
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Steve Williams
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4. Getting the Secondaries of other player's Strategy Cards and still having actions left to take advantage of them.

5. Waiting to see which equidistant system gets defended before striking at the other.

6-∞. Waiting until everyone else has passed to do literally anything you want.


Skipping turns is hands-down the most powerful thing to do in TI3. However, that sentence can make a novice player controlling the Yssaril skip at the wrong time, such as when other fleets are within striking distance of systems they really need to hold.

It's not always correct to skip at every opportunity you get, but it is pretty close.

The part where many players think they're overpowered is that on top of the most powerful Ability in the game, they start with the most powerful Technology in the game: XRD Transporters. Further insult, they get 2 carriers and enough groundforces to go with them that it's pretty difficult for the Yssaril to NOT have taken 2 rich systems on their first turn. So the Yssaril have flexibility, mobility, resources, a wealth of Action Cards, and nearly every round get to take their turns with complete knowledge of what everyone else has done, or at the very least where they can't go due to having their systems locked down. Compare that to the Xxcha, who have a mediocre ability and punishingly few starting forces, and you can see where people get upset.

All that said, TI3 is an asymmetrical game, and players can and should gang up on the Yssaril, or at least pressure them, whenever they can.
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Adam Mitchell
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Yes! Yes, they are.

The Yssaril start off with XRD and two carriers. They receive double the normal number of action cards per turn and have no limit to their hand of action cards. They are able to look at the action cards of others, thus hopefully preventing them from being surprised by a nasty AC. When playing with Leaders they are the only race with two Agents, allowing them to cancel two different action cards in the game. Their skip ability, as has already been pointed out, is extremely valuable for taking military action after other players have passed and can no longer react to it, or for delaying the use of their strategy card. They possess a two movement, cloaked Flagship which could spell doom against a careless enemy who relies on the ships surrounding his home world. Finally, they have the racial tech you mentioned, which allows them to steal the best action cards from their opponents.

Although this last advantage may be going a step too far; there has been talk of such a thing focusing other player enmity on the Yssaril and even the most powerful race in the game cannot withstand the combined efforts of the rest of the galaxy.
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Starkiller
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Zeromage wrote:
We've played TI3 9 times now, each game with 6 people. All 6 have played each game and we're all very experienced gamers. Each game a different one of us has been the Yssaril, and one person has been them twice, and one person 3 times. And as of yet, no one has been able to win with them. And only in our first game were they even close. Hacan have won 4 different games (4 different players). So far Hacan are the only race with more than one win. Other wins were: Jol Nar, Winnu, L1Z1X, Arborec, and Mentak.

We've all read a ton of strategy and we've yet to understand why everyone thinks they are so insanely powerful. The two carriers and XRD seems to be a much bigger advantage than the skipping turns. And the tech that lets you steal an action only brings other players wrath down upon you.

What are we missing? Why are some people banning this race? Why do people think they are so insanely powerful?

I would say (and this is not a criticism) that your present groupthink favors the TG-heavy Hacan.

If you like that, great.

But I would try pushing the envelope with a different race.
Warlike race? Demmand payment or attack.
Try introducing an optional rule and use it...like mines.
Introduce a Political Card that benefits a player--and announce you'll support highest bidder.

Doing stuff like this means you may not win that particular game, but you may really shake up the group playstyle.
It can also be really fun to push the envelope, and you can learn more...and win later.
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Necessary Evil
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No they are not OP, but they are a strong race in the hands of someone who knows how to use them. they will be getting one or 2 moves after each player has passed each round, that can be very strong.

-M
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David Damerell
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Much as political elimination is a bit of a sore point, the fact that they have no Bodyguard does hurt them a little with Political Intrigue. I'm not sure this is an accident.
 
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Michael Bomholt
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Yes they are.
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Dzyhanas S.
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Top tier; definitely
Overpowered; i don't think. They are as OP as Hacan or L1z1x.
Annoying ; most of time

It is sure there is a significant gap between low tier races with Yssaril ( or Hacan or L1z1x...) but for rest of the races, it is insignificant.

Their real problem is annoying skipping ability.
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Heath Stockburn
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abredon wrote:
Zeromage wrote:
Leifr wrote:
In a three player game I fended off the determined assault of two experienced players to win with the Yssaril.

I don't discount them.


Can you give me three situations where their skip ability is really powerful?


1. Fulfilling objectives with military requirements like controlling planets adjacent to home systems by waiting until the players have passed before taking the planet.

2. Delaying activation of your strategy card until other players have already passed.

3. Forcing other players to spend action cards and command counters to stall by pretending to do either of the above.


I would like to change 2. to
2. Delaying activation of your strategy card until other players expended all of the Strategy Allocation counters.... grrrr
 
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Volbound1700 No
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Zeromage wrote:
We've played TI3 9 times now, each game with 6 people. All 6 have played each game and we're all very experienced gamers. Each game a different one of us has been the Yssaril, and one person has been them twice, and one person 3 times. And as of yet, no one has been able to win with them. And only in our first game were they even close. Hacan have won 4 different games (4 different players). So far Hacan are the only race with more than one win. Other wins were: Jol Nar, Winnu, L1Z1X, Arborec, and Mentak.

We've all read a ton of strategy and we've yet to understand why everyone thinks they are so insanely powerful. The two carriers and XRD seems to be a much bigger advantage than the skipping turns. And the tech that lets you steal an action only brings other players wrath down upon you.

What are we missing? Why are some people banning this race? Why do people think they are so insanely powerful?


You can win with any players as luck (draw of planets) plays a factor in the game. However, Action Cards are critical and can turn the tide of a game. Yssrail Tribes has so many advantages with the Action Cards. Also as mentioned, they have XRD, two carriers, and 5 inf at start as well as the ability to skip turns. Kind of hard to beat all of that.

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