Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
21 Posts

Smash Up: Science Fiction Double Feature» Forums » Rules

Subject: copy cat question rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
robert
United States
Utah
flag msg tools
mbmb
My group decided that copy cat couldnt copy the ability of a minion if it was an ability that only happened when the minion came into play. Meaning we thought it could only copy a talent or ongoing ability.

Our thinking was that it says when it comes into play it gains the ability of another minion until the end of turn, so it seems like copying a minions ability that triggers when its played would be like copy cat used 2 come into play abilities, its own and that of the one he copied.

If anyone knows for sure the rule please explain so we can play right
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Travis Vandenberg
Canada
flag msg tools
mb
I'm almost certain it can copy an ability that only happens when it comes into play. If not, that would rule out a ton of abilities including most of the better ones to copy. It also doesn't specify that this isn't possible so I don't think it would make sense to rule it out. You can copy an Invader for a free VP or a Nukebot and then transmogrify it to wipe out a base.

It's not really using two abilities because in reality the only ability it gets is the one it's taking from someone else. That's the one it's using when it comes into play. And I'm pretty sure there are other minions that have multiple "come into play" abilities (for example Microbot Alpha - +1 for all Microbots. All minions are Microbots)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
robert
United States
Utah
flag msg tools
mbmb
WhatAChamp wrote:
I'm almost certain it can copy an ability that only happens when it comes into play. If not, that would rule out a ton of abilities including most of the better ones to copy. It also doesn't specify that this isn't possible so I don't think it would make sense to rule it out. You can copy an Invader for a free VP or a Nukebot and then transmogrify it to wipe out a base.

It's not really using two abilities because in reality the only ability it gets is the one it's taking from someone else. That's the one it's using when it comes into play. And I'm pretty sure there are other minions that have multiple "come into play" abilities (for example Microbot Alpha - +1 for all Microbots. All minions are Microbots)


This would make the card much more useful then it was when we tried using it the other way.

Microbot alpha doesnt have 2 though. The+1 for all micro bots is an ongoing effect not just when it comes into play. However I think you are right about copycat

Thanks
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
N S
msg tools
What is the exact text for copy cat?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
robert
United States
Utah
flag msg tools
mbmb
darkNES386 wrote:
What is the exact text for copy cat?


"choose another player's minion in play. This card has the same ability as that minion until the end of the turn"

Copy cat is a minion as well btw

We were confused because it sounds like copy cat comes into play THEN it gains the new ability. Thus it sounds like if it took over a come into play triggered ability that it would now be to late because it already came into play then gained the ability.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roger Aquino
United States
California
flag msg tools
My understanding is it can copy any minions ability and use it once it gets played. The text implies the ability is only active until the end of your turn. So once you play it, use the ability, and draw your 2 cards, Copycat will only be a card sitting on the table worth 2 power until it's destroyed or you use your Time Traveler abilities to replay your minion and have the opportunity to copy another ability for that one turn again.

IMO that means ongoing and special abilities can be used, but are gone once you draw those 2 cards.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryan Stout
United States
Annandale
Virginia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Copying "come into play" abilities is valid, and the most frequent way it is used since they are the most common. In playtesting we did it all the time, Invaders being the favorite thing to copy.

Ongoing, Special and Talent abilities can also be copied, but only for the current turn of course.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benjamin Upton
United States
Virginia
flag msg tools
Just to confirm, it cannot be played as a Shinobi when a base breaks, as a Tenacious Z from the discard pile, and so forth - correct?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
D b
msg tools
Draco Ignifer wrote:
Just to confirm, it cannot be played as a Shinobi when a base breaks, as a Tenacious Z from the discard pile, and so forth - correct?


Since you cant play it when a base scores, you cannot use its card text. So no, not as Shinobi (if there is no other card that allows you to play it as special; but then you would not choose the shinobi ability).

I find the Tenacious Z question harder, since you could play it, choose the Z ability, destroy it and play it as extra all in the same turn.
Personally I would say, you cannot use it - since it is out of play in the discard pile.
But that's up for Interpretation or clarification I guess.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryan Stout
United States
Annandale
Virginia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I agree:

1. Copycatting a Shinobi is pointless, since its ability only works when it is in the hand.

2. Copycatting a Tenacious Z might be useful, because if you destroy it the same turn, you could re-play it immediately from the discard pile, which in some instances is desirable. This raises the question whether it would then copy another ability. I think the answer would be Yes, but it's definitely FAQ-worthy.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Travis Vandenberg
Canada
flag msg tools
mb
Barliman wrote:
I agree:

1. Copycatting a Shinobi is pointless, since its ability only works when it is in the hand.

2. Copycatting a Tenacious Z might be useful, because if you destroy it the same turn, you could re-play it immediately from the discard pile, which in some instances is desirable. This raises the question whether it would then copy another ability. I think the answer would be Yes, but it's definitely FAQ-worthy.


I would argue that once the Copycat goes to the discard pile, it loses its ability similar to how regular cards lose any bonuses they had when they go to the discard pile (War Raptors only have 2 power in discard pile). Because of that, it would no longer have the ability of the Tenacious Z and couldn't be played as an extra minion out of your discard pile. I may be wrong but that seems the most sensible.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryan Stout
United States
Annandale
Virginia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It has been explicitly stated that the power of a minion when not in play is its printed value only. For abilities, it is stated that they expire at the end of the turn unless stated otherwise. With both Copycats and Tenacious Z, it is not stated otherwise. While abilities trigger at specified times, there is nothing stating they are invalid when not in play.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Travis Vandenberg
Canada
flag msg tools
mb
Hmm okay. Well then if you were Alien shapeshifters and you played a Copycat to copy a Ninja Master's ability, played Abduction to return it to your hand, and then replayed it, you could not give it a Bear Cavalry's ability the second time it was played because that Copycat would have to keep the Ninja Master's ability until the end of the turn? I feel like the Copycat ability would reset once it enters your hand or discard pile.

I'm not sure where you're getting this rule that abilities expire at the end of the turn unless stated otherwise (aside from the Copycat text). The definition of Ongoing says that "Most abilities happen and then they're over. Ongoing abilities are active for as long as they're in play". Although Copycat can take on the effect of immediate one-time actions or ongoing ones, Copycat's ongoing effect of keeping a minion ability is no longer active when it isn't in play so it goes back to having its regular effect when it goes to the discard pile.

Maybe I'm reading into this wrong, but I have seen no instance where a card continues to use its effect from the discard pile or from your hand without it being in play aside from specials.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryan Stout
United States
Annandale
Virginia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Your Alien Shapeshifter question is another good FAQ entry!

The definition of Ongoing was revised starting with AL9K: "Most abilities happen and then they're over, or else they end at the end of the turn. Ongoing abilities are active for as long as they're around."

During the time a Copycat has "the same ability" as a Special, it is a Special itself, the way I see it, so it should be able to use its ability from the discard pile.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J
United States
Alexandria
Virginia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
Bah so late to the party. I'd agree with Travis on this one. Once a minion goes to the discard pile it loses it's bonuses abilities stop working so I'd agree that although it was copying TZ's ability while in play it stops copying it when it's in the discard.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryan Stout
United States
Annandale
Virginia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
allstar64 wrote:
Bah so late to the party.

Congrats on finally getting a copy!

I'm still waiting for mine to arrive.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon Gameson
United Kingdom
Worcestershire
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
I know I'm fanning up an old flame here, but been hunting for this answer. Was there any general consensus here or from AEG on:

a) if it keeps it's ability in the graveyard (ie. Tenacious Z)?

or

b) if it keeps it's ability when returned to your hand (ie. play it on an Invader, return it via Beam up, then play it again as something else)?

Have tried Shape-shifting Aliens once in a 2P match, they won 15-5 with only 2 bases scoring because of so many Invader copies, bounce-backs and replays! Wanted to make sure I was playing it right.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mano Vega
United States
Florida
flag msg tools
First off, the CopyCat does not let you copy your OWN minions, so if you are playing Alien/Copycat you cannot copy the Invader.

I also disagree on the Shinobi. If someone else has a Shinobi minion on the table, shouldn't the Copycat player be able to imitate the ability (including the "Special" word) and bring in a Copycat when a base is scoring?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dapperghast Meowregard
United States
Eagan
Minnesota
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Kegatron wrote:

I also disagree on the Shinobi. If someone else has a Shinobi minion on the table, shouldn't the Copycat player be able to imitate the ability (including the "Special" word) and bring in a Copycat when a base is scoring?


They can copy it when they play the copycat, but they have to be able to play it first. It's like playing clone as a copy of a creature with flash in Magic. You can copy them, but the copier won't get the ability until he's already been played, meaning you have to follow his timing restrictions.

As for cards changing zones, I'm on the lose abilities team. Doubly so for returning to hand, due to enforceability issues. Even if cheating's not an issue, as the main force of the shapeshifters, the "Wasn't he copying my Spirit?" "No, that was one of the other ones in my hand." issue would crop up far too often. While discard pile would be less of an issue in that regard, I think the potential cumbersomeness of tracking two or three copycats at once and keeping zone change rules consistent outweighs the niftiness of being able to copy a specter or tenacious Z once in a while.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon Gameson
United Kingdom
Worcestershire
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
Kegatron wrote:
First off, the CopyCat does not let you copy your OWN minions, so if you are playing Alien/Copycat you cannot copy the Invader.


Yep...realised my mistake a few days ago...had a feeling it was a little too strong lol ...oh well. Ty for pointing this out.

Kegatron wrote:
I also disagree on the Shinobi. If someone else has a Shinobi minion on the table, shouldn't the Copycat player be able to imitate the ability (including the "Special" word) and bring in a Copycat when a base is scoring?


Erm...I don't think they'd be able to no, since the Copycat has to have been played in order for it to copy the ability, so while it's in your hand, it won't have access to the Shinobi's Special and so won't be able to be played out of sequence
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Justin Kibler
msg tools
Has there been a confirmation from admins or anything? I am still stuck on the OPs question, and believe his original conclusion is correct.

It's still a nice ability to copy talents, ongoings, etc. Doesn't being able to copy any one-shot ability sound a little outrageous to you guys? Considering balance along with the way Playing a card actually functions I don't think CopyCat gets to be considered 'replayed' in order to use the copied ability.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.