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Subject: 5 players version / Version à 5 joueurs rss

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Olivier Darchis
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- 12 prestige points to win
- 6 nobles in game
- 8 chips max per player until all level 1 cards are gone. Then 10 chips per player.

- 12 points de victoire pour gagner
- 6 Nobles en jeu au début de la partie
- Limitation à 8 jetons par joueur jusqu'à ce que toutes les cartes de niveau 1 (sur la table + la pioche) aient été prises. Possibilité ensuite de passer à 10 jetons maxi par joueur.
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CROC
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We tried to put a kind of variant like that but in our playtest downtime is to long and token bankrupt too frequent to make it into the final version.

Regards,

CROC
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Greg Silberman
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Presuming the downtime was considered acceptable by the group. What about combining two sets to avoid chip depletion. My group really likes the game gut it seems that we rarely get to play because we are 5,6,7 most nights we get together.

Any thought on the chip count (how many of each gold and jewel), number of nobles and prestige coal for 5,6 or 7 players?

I am guessing you gave this a try at some point.
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David Etherton
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Chip counts are 4/5/7 for 2/3/4 players, with 5 gold.

I'd try it with two more chips and maybe one more gold. Maybe add a fifth column of cards too to reduce the chaos a bit? Maybe two more nobles as well, and nobody is allowed to take more than three nobles?

I've only played it once 4p so far but we didn't get close to depleting any of the decks so you're probably okay without a second deck.

Can't do much about the downtime of course, but I think you can reduce the ensuing chaos a bit.

-Dave
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fabio fabio
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We tried to play with two more chips (using other counters to replace the missing ones) and it worked brilliantly ..

It's better to use one noble tile more than in the 4 player version.
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David Etherton
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zauk wrote:
We tried to play with two more chips (using other counters to replace the missing ones) and it worked brilliantly ..

It's better to use one noble tile more than in the 4 player version.


Did you add any gold or just the five primary colors?
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fabio fabio
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Just the primary colors .. We had also a limit of 8 chips per player
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etherton wrote:
Chip counts are 4/5/7 for 2/3/4 players, with 5 gold.

etherton, 4/5/7 what?

fabio, 8 chips max the entire game or while first level exists?
 
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David Etherton
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When playing with 2 players, you use 4 chips per non-gold color. When playing with 3 players, you use 5 chips per non-gold color. When playing with 4 players, you use all 7 chips per non-gold color. You always use 5 gold chips.
 
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Thanks for the clarification David. I don't have the game myself, my friend does.
 
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luca revello
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What do you think instead of adding gems to permit to take the Yellows when one color is temprary out?

Luca
 
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James R. Gracen
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olfenw wrote:
- 12 prestige points to win
- 6 nobles in game
- 8 chips max per player until all level 1 cards are gone. Then 10 chips per player.

- 12 points de victoire pour gagner
- 6 Nobles en jeu au début de la partie
- Limitation à 8 jetons par joueur jusqu'à ce que toutes les cartes de niveau 1 (sur la table + la pioche) aient été prises. Possibilité ensuite de passer à 10 jetons maxi par joueur.


Let me start off by saying I haven't attempted a 5-player game yet. Just researching some possible setups at this point. I have a feeling I might like V Dickson's version put forth in this image:


Setup requires nine of each of the gem tokens, and six gold tokens. You will need to acquire two additional tokens for each colored gem and one additional gold token (from a second copy of the game, or glass stones, plastic gems, or spray painted poker chips perhaps).

He says the game runs long when played to 15 Prestige Points. So I like your suggestion of playing to 12. I like the idea of adding a fifth column of development cards. And, the six nobles fits perfectly with the standard "# of nobles = # of players + 1".

If I get a chance to try this, I will post my results.
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James R. Gracen
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luca wrote:
What do you think instead of adding gems to permit to take the Yellows when one color is temprary out?

Luca


I don't think I would like having the opportunity for everyone to get gold tokens when one of the other gem stacks was depleted. Seems a bit too unbalanced to me. Depleting one or more of the gem token stacks is a commonly used strategy in the game that I wouldn't want to see defeated by allowing people to take gold in this manner.

I do like the idea of adding more gem and gold tokens to the game in a 5-player setup though. It follows the natural progression of the base game rules of adding more gem tokens the more players you have.
 
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Alejandro Rascon
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What we did to compensate to 5 players is not to allow to hoard more than 8 gems.
We did do +1 noble.
Worked out fine.
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Trevor Schadt
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morgothrond wrote:
What we did to compensate to 5 players is not to allow to hoard more than 8 gems.
We did do +1 noble.
Worked out fine.
I would think you would want to add a 5th card to each row as well, so each person has a card in each row they can be actively "aiming" for.
 
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ryudoowaru wrote:
]I would think you would want to add a 5th card to each row as well, so each person has a card in each row they can be actively "aiming" for.
If there's a card I want, I KNOW it will be gone by the time my turn comes up, even with 4 cards out in a 4 player game, GUARANTEED. I aim for the card that hasn't come out yet.
 
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V Dickson
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CavemanLogic wrote:
olfenw wrote:
- 12 prestige points to win
- 6 nobles in game
- 8 chips max per player until all level 1 cards are gone. Then 10 chips per player.

- 12 points de victoire pour gagner
- 6 Nobles en jeu au début de la partie
- Limitation à 8 jetons par joueur jusqu'à ce que toutes les cartes de niveau 1 (sur la table + la pioche) aient été prises. Possibilité ensuite de passer à 10 jetons maxi par joueur.


Let me start off by saying I haven't attempted a 5-player game yet. Just researching some possible setups at this point. I have a feeling I might like V Dickson's version put forth in this image:


Setup requires nine of each of the gem tokens, and six gold tokens. You will need to acquire two additional tokens for each colored gem and one additional gold token (from a second copy of the game, or glass stones, plastic gems, or spray painted poker chips perhaps).

He says the game runs long when played to 15 Prestige Points. So I like your suggestion of playing to 12. I like the idea of adding a fifth column of development cards. And, the six nobles fits perfectly with the standard "# of nobles = # of players + 1".

If I get a chance to try this, I will post my results.


Thanks for posting my picture here.

We found that adding the extra stones (just dollar store "gems") really worked well. There was enough without having to play with any of the other core mechanisms of the game.

The added column (5 of each color) also helped a lot to stabilize the game--with less the game felt more random. Adding that last column allowed for more strategy and planning.

The only issue that we found is just that the downtime increases. If you don't mind a little bit of a slowdown, it's quite fun.

We've played this way several times and have enjoyed it every time.

Just to be clear, we did not change any rules of the game, only added more stones, one more noble, and more cards to the table. Then played like normal. It's one of our favorites now, even with 5.
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Sonny Blount
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I've played 5 player quite a bit.

We just added 2 gems of each colour and a gold token. We swapped out the Splendor chips for actual poker chips.

We usually player it with 4 cards per row and 6 nobles but the last time I think we did 5 cards.

It has always worked fine either way but I think I would stick with 5 card rows.

Downtime has never been an issue, possibly because all players are reasonably experienced, 5 card rows might increase the downtime because more options are available to evaluate.
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James R. Gracen
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CavemanLogic wrote:
If I get a chance to try this, I will post my results.

My results: After having played a couple of five-player games, here are my findings. The games do last a bit longer, but only playing to 12 Prestige points helps mitigate that.

Our first game took much longer than a standard three or four-player game, but that had as much to do with the players (two very distractible teenagers who kept leaving the table to do other things, and two other adults who took multiple smoke breaks throughout the game), as it did the new mechanics. Understandably, it was hard to judge what the length of the game would have been without the distractions. The newest player won that first game, by the way, with a very impressive five point final play (using a bit of misdirection to score a five point card when we all thought he was building towards a different card) to finish at 17 Prestige, after his mother had triggered game end by building to 16. That first game we played to 15, mainly because I forgot to cap it at 12.

Our second game was played a week later, with more experienced players, and went more smoothly (and quickly). We remembered to play to 12 Prestige points this time. Similar to the first game, the winner won after someone else triggered endgame. She swooped in for the one-point win by collecting a one point ruby card and grabbing a noble (for a four-point play) to finish with 13 points. This game was much closer than the first, with the exception of the last place player who had terrible luck of the draw (the cards available on his turn never seemed to mesh with his engine and/or the gems that he had collected). The final scores were 13, 12, 11, 11, 4.

So... after getting a pair of five-player games under my belt, my preferred changes to accommodate a fifth player are these:

--Nine of each gem (instead of seven).
--One additional column of face-up cards (five columns vs. four).
--You play to 12 Prestige points (instead of 15).

Everything else stays the same:

--The number of nobles = number of players plus one (so six in a five-player game).
--Five gold (although six gold also works well).
--You are able to hoard up to 10 gems/gold.
--You are able to reserve up to three cards at a time.


Some observations: First, having the fifth column of cards available seemed to speed the game up a bit. I had a better chance of the card that I was working towards still being available on my next turn, rather than seeing it be bought by someone else and having to figure out a new strategy on my turn. This was especially relevant later in the game when our engines allowed for more frequent purchasing of tier two and tier three cards. And second, we played with six gold, but the gold stack was never depleted. So sticking with five gold may work just fine. But that may just be because our group doesn't reserve cards very often. I think I have only played one normal (two to four-player) game where the five-chip gold stack was used up.

So, why do I prefer this five-player variant over the other version (seven of each gem, but with a gem hoard limit of eight)? First and foremost, I wished to maintain the same “gems+gold per player” ratio of 10:1 which is present in the smaller, official games of Splendor. I noticed that in a four-player game, there are 40 total gems+gold, which gives a “gems+gold per player” ratio of 10:1. A three-player game has 30 gems+gold, giving the same ratio of 10:1. Two-player games are the anomaly at 12.5:1, but this is due, I suspect, to the game being rather unplayable with only three gems of each color. In a five-player game with nine of each gem, you maintain that 10:1 ratio. If you add a sixth gold, the ratio rises only slightly to 10.2:1.

And secondly, I had these beautiful plastic gems lying around that are near-perfect replacements for the gem tokens in the game:


I got them from Oriental Trading Company years ago (click the image for links).


And here is our just completed second game (I forgot to snap a photo of game #1).


Enjoy!

()xxxx[]::::::;;::::::;;:::::> CavemanLogic
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James R. Gracen
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toober wrote:
I suggested a 5 player variant where the only change other than adding a 5th player is to also add one permanent gold coin for all players (not part of the original stack). I haven't been able to test it out but if anyone else has, please let us know how it goes. I figure it will make the lower tiers tighter but give more play to the upper tiers without having to change the core setup.

What do you mean when you say "permanent gold coin"? You mean everyone has something like a gold card? Similar to when they buy a ruby development card, they have a permanent ruby?
 
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Yes.
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James R. Gracen
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biohazard wrote:
We tried to put a kind of variant like that but in our playtest downtime is to long and token bankrupt too frequent to make it into the final version.

Regards,

CROC

etherton wrote:
Can't do much about the downtime of course, but I think you can reduce the ensuing chaos a bit.

-Dave

In our case, we didn't find downtime to be that much of a problem.

We find that when our games do start running a bit long, we try to remind players that when the player before you is taking their turn, you can still be analyzing the cards and deciding what you are going to do on your turn. Made the game go much smoother when we played with very distractible teenagers.

I sometimes still find myself absent-mindedly staring at the cards or gems the previous player is hovering over while they decide their turn, when I should be analyzing the cards for my turn next.

Most of the time, the action the previous player takes on their turn will not affect your turn. Sometimes it will, and it might just require adjusting a gem or two that you were planning on taking. Then again, sometimes they might take the card you were planning on taking, in which case you will have to re-plan your turn again from scratch...

But in any case, a little reminder should help a game that is dragging speed up a bit.

()xxxx[]::::::;;::::::;;:::::> CavemanLogic
 
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Collis Jeppesen
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CavemanLogic wrote:
CavemanLogic wrote:
If I get a chance to try this, I will post my results.

My results: After having played a couple of five-player games, here are my findings. The games do last a bit longer, but only playing to 12 Prestige points helps mitigate that.

So... after getting a pair of five-player games under my belt, my preferred changes to accommodate a fifth player are these:

--Nine of each gem (instead of seven).
--One additional column of face-up cards (five columns vs. four).
--You play to 12 Prestige points (instead of 15).

Everything else stays the same:

--The number of nobles = number of players plus one (so six in a five-player game).
--Five gold (although six gold also works well).
--You are able to hoard up to 10 gems/gold.
--You are able to reserve up to three cards at a time.


And secondly, I had these beautiful plastic gems lying around that are near-perfect replacements for the gem tokens in the game:


I got them from Oriental Trading Company years ago (click the image for links).


And here is our just completed second game (I forgot to snap a photo of game #1).


Enjoy!

()xxxx[]::::::;;::::::;;:::::> CavemanLogic


Thanks for coming up with these rules. Have times where we have a 5th player and now we can work him into the game. I'm deployed so my resources were limited on base so I had to get creative. Office vinyl covered paperclips and uniform buttons from a sewing kit.....

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James R. Gracen
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Collis68 wrote:
Thanks for coming up with these rules. Have times where we have a 5th player and now we can work him into the game. I'm deployed so my resources were limited on base so I had to get creative. Office vinyl covered paperclips and uniform buttons from a sewing kit.....


Awesome! Very creative. Please, give it a shot. Actually, try both versions if you can (the nine of each gem version, or the seven of each gem with a gem hoard limit of eight) and report your findings.

And thank you for your service to your country. You are much appreciated!

()xxxx[]::::::;;::::::;;:::::> CavemanLogic
 
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Isaac Llopis
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I had not seen this thread before, but seems that these rules may work. However they require more items than there are actually in the box, so it's not really a replacement of rules. For example, there are not 9 tokens of each in the box, so you have to make do with other type of chips or your very beautiful gems (amazing gems btw!)

We have played 3 times today with the single following modification:
- You have a limit of 7 gems/gold in your hand rather than 10.

That tweaks the game enough for it to be playable although it makes it slightly longer. I suppose that lowering the condition of ended to 12 points rather than 15, as this suggests, would curb that and make it playable in around 30 minutes.

The rule above adds something rather interesting to the game, the cards of the first row almost invariably go extinct, which thing didn't happen in the 4-player version. And strategy, particularly strategies that involve the nobles, becomes so much more important to actually win. This last game we had was ended by one player believing he'd won with 17 points, and then having two other players consecutively beating him by 19 and 22 (the winner) in that extra last round.

After the plays we've had this afternoon, I believe this is indeed a 5 player game --Just by tweaking that rule. And is best played with 5 players with that single rule tweak.
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