Recommend
13 
 Thumb up
 Hide
18 Posts

Combat Commander: Europe» Forums » Sessions

Subject: First game ever: Fat Lipki (with some after-thoughts) rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Pablo Klinkisch
Germany
Heidelberg
Baden-Württemberg
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Played this for the first time against a person last Friday.

As we were both new to the game, we went for Fat Lipki (#1). I had read the rules a while ago (and once more on the tram) and my opponent wasn't much more prepared than I was, so constant rulebook checks were expected (good that I brought my copy of the rulebook too, it did speed up things!).

We decided the sides randomly and I got the Soviets. Objectives where: 5 (the one in the middle) 5VPs and double exit points(!).

I think both of us had no plans whatsoever, at least I know I had NO idea what I should do

The game started with me discarding 2 hands in a row as I was unable to get any move cards angry Meanwhile, the bad guys (aka the Germans) moved into the building in the middle of the map (5) and slowly moved through the woods to be in position to take the small farm to my left.

After I've got some move cards I began my drive for the same farm and tried to find a plan to attack the big building in the middle. After realizing how my units' range SUCKS I decided for the way of the Chicken and started moving my main units (the ones that should attack the center) slowly through the woods (out of German LOS) to a better fire position.

The Bad guys got to the farm before my valiant heroes were able to surround it and thus a strange "trench warfare" began: I fired like a maniac (12+), broke the German units, only for them to play a Recover and rally... As soon as I had no more firepower, the units in the Farm fired back.
GOTO 10 for a while...

But then, it happened: the bad guys were broken and had no recover cards! So I advanced almost all my units (overstaking) and assaulted the Farm.
One roll and the German right was history: 3 units less, 5VPs more and a free lane to his side of the board!

This was the decisive moment: after that, I was able to exit my whole left, netting me some 14VPs or so and, through careful card-counting, immediatly re-enter it on my right, just in time to start firing at a German unit trying to exit the map (it did succeed, though).

The game was for me to win, so I started looking for time triggers while I kept firing at the central building.
The fire exchange went as usual: break-recover-repeat (specially with a 10 leader, there is no way those units won't recover).
First Sudden-death roll: game continues. I re-rolled with my initiative to no avail.
But the second sudden-death roll came closely after ant the game ended with a nice Soviet victory! (+10 or so)

After thoughts:

- I am a bit annoyed with the break-recover cycle. You need to break the units if you want to have any chance at Melee (only effective way to kill something) but you will only able to use the opportunity window if the enemy doesn't have a recover card shake
[In scenarios with more units, multiple fire bases could help prevent this, I suppose]

- The luck component is huge and I am afraid that some games might be won just because of that (not this one, of course, I won this one thanks to my superior plan... and the (bad) luck of the German draw ).

- The game can drag a bit when both players have sub-optimal hands. ALl in all we played some 3.5h, which is a bit too much for what the game is, I'd say.

Still, it was real fun! We will be playing again next week probably (though, I do hope not Fat Lipki! To be honest, I found the scenario kind of linear).

Any suggestions for our next scenario?
16 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Francis K. Lalumiere
Canada
Brossard
Quebec
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Play it some more! You'll see that the luck curve will flatten, and your play time will get shorter. For me, it's rare that a game goes over two hours.

(And you'll find yourself entering into melee even when the enemy is not broken -- hopefully with a couple of Ambush actions and the Initiative card on your side...)

And most importantly: welcome to the club!!
18 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chick Lewis
United States
Claremont
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
WELCOME, and exactly all the other things Weishaupt wrote.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ahmed Hadzi
United States
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sancherib wrote:

After thoughts:

- I am a bit annoyed with the break-recover cycle. You need to break the units if you want to have any chance at Melee (only effective way to kill something) but you will only able to use the opportunity window if the enemy doesn't have a recover card shake
[In scenarios with more units, multiple fire bases could help prevent this, I suppose]

- The luck component is huge and I am afraid that some games might be won just because of that (not this one, of course, I won this one thanks to my superior plan... and the (bad) luck of the German draw ).

- The game can drag a bit when both players have sub-optimal hands. ALl in all we played some 3.5h, which is a bit too much for what the game is, I'd say.

Still, it was real fun! We will be playing again next week probably (though, I do hope not Fat Lipki! To be honest, I found the scenario kind of linear).

Any suggestions for our next scenario?


- If you have a fire group which can yield 12FP+ in raw fire strength (based on your writing), you can then split the shot into two smaller shots of around 8-9FP each. For example the squad under the leader + 2 squads in the first shot, and then the MG which is carried by the squad under the leader + 1-2 squads.
As long as your base FP = their raw morale + cover (so let's say 9-9), there is about 50% chance you can break them on the first shot and then follow up with the second... Russians have some MGs in this scenario but in order to use the squads they have to come in close.

- The luck will be mitigated once you learn to utilize more actions out of your hand. The luck is present, but it is far from being the deciding factor. And 90% of the time, the more experienced player will win the game (unless the scenario is wildly one sided).

- Fat Lipki is a learning scenario which doesn't use Artillery Request and Artillery Denied cards. Also both sides are in RECON so Defender actions are out of the play. With small amount of troops on the ground, it will happen that hands might get clogged with useless (in that scenario) cards.

If you continue with scenario 2, you will see that hands of cards will flow much easier. In scenario 2, Germans play defense with tons of fire power (so two strong shoots, one after another are easy to set up), and Americans have some Arty. Almost every card you receive will be useful.


Once again, Fat Lipki is a training scenario. Once you guys get more experience, get back to it. I assure you it will play quite differently. And also the Objectives will most likely be 100% different which will send the play in a different direction.
15 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tommaso Gollini
Italy
Bologna
ITALY
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
played fat lipki for the first time last night.
both players (me and my friend andy) were at our first experience on this.
we CAN have missed something (for example, i was the germans, and near the end of the match i got a reinforcement event, and i chose between the options i got (rolled 5) an 150 artyllery radio... i dont know if it was right or not)
anyway, the luck is really a factor but it's the same as in other game of the same level (aka ASL). Probably even lesser than that

For a control geek, the game is probably too random, but imho it captures the wild and furious exchanges of the fights it's called to re-enact.

the lack of total control is also a benefit for the narrative side (imho).

all in all i give 8 out of 10 after the first match. more will follow
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Oliver Paul
Iceland
Reykjavik
None
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yeah our games are rarely longer than 90 minutes, although once in a while they go to 120 minutes. Keep at it, it's an awesome game.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Confusion Under Fire
United Kingdom
Warrington
Cheshire
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It is quite easy to see the objective and think that is the only way to win this game. Remember you had double exit points. Start moving your units off the map and watch the worried look on the German players face!
Another point to remember is that the nations are designed to reflect their historical counterparts so the Russians are numerous so they can usually get some units across an open space. The Russian surrender levels are higher than other nations to reflect this.
The defender has more actions available to him than the attacker so as you reach a point where you are comfortable with the rules you can start to look at your hand as the defender and really screw up the attackers plans.
The enthusiasm in your post comes across really well and as you get more games under your belt I am sure you will discover lots more about CC.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stacey Hager
United States
Charleston
West Virginia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

Next time I teach the game I am going to use map 1, but I'm going to try Scenario 103, "Varsity Blues" instead.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pablo Klinkisch
Germany
Heidelberg
Baden-Württemberg
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks all for your answers: we will be playing again tomorrow!

Just one or two things:

ahmedhadzi wrote:
If you have a fire group which can yield 12FP+ in raw fire strength (based on your writing), you can then split the shot into two smaller shots of around 8-9FP each. For example the squad under the leader + 2 squads in the first shot, and then the MG which is carried by the squad under the leader + 1-2 squads.
As long as your base FP = their raw morale + cover (so let's say 9-9), there is about 50% chance you can break them on the first shot and then follow up with the second... Russians have some MGs in this scenario but in order to use the squads they have to come in close.


I didn't think of this, but I am not 100% it would have worked: his morale base was:
5 (Squad) + 2 (Leader) + 3 (building) = 10
And a leader with a 10 morale when he is broken (!).

Really, not sure how feasible it would have been to take the central building...

whatambush wrote:
It is quite easy to see the objective and think that is the only way to win this game. Remember you had double exit points. Start moving your units off the map and watch the worried look on the German players face!


It's more or less what I did and how I won
With the caveat, that I first wiped out the Germans on my left.

I have a small reflection about fire/fire cards, but maybe I should open a new thread for that (a small comparison with Fields of Fire, where fire is always automatic... even when you don't want it )
And, btw, any scenarios' recommendations for our next game?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Pardoe
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
Sancherib wrote:
I didn't think of this, but I am not 100% it would have worked: his morale base was:
5 (Squad) + 2 (Leader) + 3 (building) = 10
And a leader with a 10 morale when he is broken (!).

There are no German squads with a "5" Morale in Fat Lipki. In fact, only a broken Conscript has 5 Morale, so will assume a small error here.

While the leader does increase in morale while broken, his command drops to 0 so he no longer modifies (perhaps temporarily) the squad's morale. And that is the time (when the leader is broken) that you need to inflict the damage.

You mention a cycle of break-recover-repeat. As the Russian deck has 18 Fire Orders to the Germans 9 Recover Orders, the German can't recover after EVERY Fire order, keep the pressure up and eventually the cycle will be broken.

3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ahmed Hadzi
United States
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Exactly what Richard said, in addition, you don't have to kill the leader. As long as you can kill the squad (shouldn't be hard if you manage to break the leader), then you go in for melee!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ahmed Hadzi
United States
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sancherib wrote:
And, btw, any scenarios' recommendations for our next game?


Yeah, go in the ascending order, 2 then 3 then 4 and so on.

3 and 4 are really exciting and fun, and #2 introduce you to the Artillery, and has some challenging map features.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pablo Klinkisch
Germany
Heidelberg
Baden-Württemberg
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
RPardoe wrote:
Sancherib wrote:
I didn't think of this, but I am not 100% it would have worked: his morale base was:
5 (Squad) + 2 (Leader) + 3 (building) = 10
And a leader with a 10 morale when he is broken (!).

There are no German squads with a "5" Morale in Fat Lipki. In fact, only a broken Conscript has 5 Morale, so will assume a small error here.


Hmmm... Maybe I misremembered... Or we used the wrong units...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pablo Klinkisch
Germany
Heidelberg
Baden-Württemberg
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ahmedhadzi wrote:
Sancherib wrote:
And, btw, any scenarios' recommendations for our next game?


Yeah, go in the ascending order, 2 then 3 then 4 and so on.

3 and 4 are really exciting and fun, and #2 introduce you to the Artillery, and has some challenging map features.


Thanks for the recommendations! after browsing the forum i was thinking about 3 or 4 (3 seems to be very popular) but 2 looks really cool with the whole boccage!

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Russ Williams
Poland
Wrocław
Dolny Śląsk
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
FWIW, scenario 2 can take longer due to the heavy bocage everywhere, and I had a couple of different new players who felt that it was too slow for their taste.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pablo Klinkisch
Germany
Heidelberg
Baden-Württemberg
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
russ wrote:
FWIW, scenario 2 can take longer due to the heavy bocage everywhere, and I had a couple of different new players who felt that it was too slow for their taste.


Ok, so maybe 3 or 4 then.

BTW: just checked: the German morale in the Building was higher
Base 7 + Leader 2 + Building 3 = 12!!!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ahmed Hadzi
United States
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sancherib wrote:
russ wrote:
FWIW, scenario 2 can take longer due to the heavy bocage everywhere, and I had a couple of different new players who felt that it was too slow for their taste.


Ok, so maybe 3 or 4 then.

BTW: just checked: the German morale in the Building was higher
Base 7 + Leader 2 + Building 3 = 12!!!


Yeah but Leader's is still 10. Once he is broken (can happen on shot 1) follow up shot will target squad with defense of 10!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.