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Situation: Defiant has two Hull points remaining and no Shield points after an attack. A critical hit face remains. The attacking player lays down Massacre:
Quote:
If your ship inflicts a [crit] agaisnt an enemy's Hull, discard this card to inflict 1 additional damage to that ship.

to apply an additional point of damage for a critical hit that impacts.

The defending player reminds the attacker that the Defiant's special ability:
Quote:
When defending, convert all your opponent's [crit] results into [hit] results.

applies before the critical hit reaches the Defiant's hull.

But...
Quote:
The U.S.S. Defiant's ability to change crits into hits applies in the “modify attack dice” portion of the combat phase. It will not negate crits that are set or re-rolled after this step from effects like “staw: Toreth”, “staw: Drex”, or a re-roll from a [target lock]. It will not negate crits inflicted in the activation phase by obstacles, or minefields created by "staw:Antimatter Mines" or "staw:Cloaked Mines"


Questions: Would the Defiant take two hits in this case? Or just one? And why?

By the rulings, it sounds like the Defiant converts the crits immediately after the dice are rolled, but not after they are modified for Target lock re-rolls or the like. Is that right? So two hits in this case?

If so, I think that should be clarified on the card. The printed text and the proposed text:
Quote:
"When defending, you may convert all [crit] results into [hit] results."

...make it sound more like "all" means all to me. But the rulings say there are exceptions. Just trying to make sense of how and when the Defiant's ability applies.
 
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Ryan Caputo
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Defenders specials are applied before attackers, so in the above the defiant would be applied first

But in the case of rerolls of the attack dice by the attacker, any second rolled crits would take effect because the defiants ability would go before the second roll

BUT!!!! If the defender makes the attacker reroll any crits would be before the Defiants ability

We had some confusion too;;; by the word 'all' and 'defending'
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In the situation you are describing, no the Defiant would not be 'Massacred'.

This is they why.....

Quote:
The U.S.S. Defiant's ability to change crits into hits applies in the “modify attack dice” portion of the combat phase. It will not negate crits that are set or re-rolled after this step from effects like “staw: Toreth”, “staw: Drex”, or a re-roll from a [target lock]. It will not negate crits inflicted in the activation phase by obstacles, or minefields created by "staw:Antimatter Mines" or "staw:Cloaked Mines"


Step by step (as the timing is ion question)

Combat Phase

1) Declare Target

Romulan Commander on the Valdore declares the Defiant/Kirk his target, at range 2

2) Roll attack Dice

RC rolls so poorly that he could be confused for Spock's father () and out of 5 dice only gets 1 crit result.

3) Modify Attack Dice (defender before attacker)

THIS IS WHERE THE DEFIANTS ABILITY IS ACTIVATED

The critical is turned to a regular hit. Kirk smirks, as only Kirk can.



At this point there is no crit so Massacre can't be used (but it would have been used at step 7).

===========================================

The Defiant is not Crit Proof....it's just Crit resistant. If you want better Crit proofing (but again not perfect) you need Romulan Tech (Polarized Hull Plating).

You'd have to ask Andrew what was the intent.
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Xander Fulton
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traitorarmor wrote:


In the situation you are describing, no the Defiant would not be 'Massacred'.

This is they why.....

Quote:
The U.S.S. Defiant's ability to change crits into hits applies in the “modify attack dice” portion of the combat phase. It will not negate crits that are set or re-rolled after this step from effects like “staw: Toreth”, “staw: Drex”, or a re-roll from a [target lock]. It will not negate crits inflicted in the activation phase by obstacles, or minefields created by "staw:Antimatter Mines" or "staw:Cloaked Mines"


Step by step (as the timing is ion question)

Combat Phase

1) Declare Target

Romulan Commander on the Valdore declares the Defiant/Kirk his target, at range 2

2) Roll attack Dice

RC rolls so poorly that he could be confused for Spock's father () and out of 5 dice only gets 1 crit result.

3) Modify Attack Dice (defender before attacker)

THIS IS WHERE THE DEFIANTS ABILITY IS ACTIVATED

The critical is turned to a regular hit. Kirk smirks, as only Kirk can.

At this point there is no crit so Massacre can't be used (but it would have been used at step 7).


Well, you *are* making an assumption about where the crit remained.

It COULD have gone like this:

1) Declare Target

Romulan Commander on the Valdore declares the Defiant/Kirk his target, at range 2, rolls 5 attack dice.

2) Roll attack Dice

The 5 attack dice are: 1 crit, 4 blanks!

3a) Modify Attack Dice (defender before attacker)

Defiant's special ability triggers, and turns that 'crit' into a 'hit'.

3b) Modify Attack Dice (attacker after defender)

Target lock removed to re-roll all 4 blanks - results on the re-rolled dice are: 1 crit, 3 blanks.

4) Roll defense dice

Defiant rolls two evades!

5a) Modify Defense Dice (attacked before defender)

As the attacker (for some reason) had core-set-LaForge on his ship, he forces the Defiant to re-roll one of the evades. It's a blank!

5b) Modify Defense Dice (defender after attacker)

Defiant has nothing to do, here

6) Compare Results

Defiant now has a hit (converted from the first crit) and a crit (from the re-roll) coming down, and uses its evade to cancel the 'hit' (hits must be cancelled before crits).

Note: If the Defiant had the Romulan 'Polarized Hull Plating', it would trigger on THIS step, and convert that remaining 'crit' into a 'hit'

7) Deal Damage

Attacker has a crit hitting the Defiant, so can play 'Massacre', here, to add another hit.

As noted, if Defiant had 'Polarized Hull Plating', there would be no crit in this step, so no use of 'Massacre' possible
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XanderF wrote:
traitorarmor wrote:


In the situation you are describing, no the Defiant would not be 'Massacred'.


Well, you *are* making an assumption about where the crit remained.





Sure, if you want to add more to the situation you can do that...........but as described none of that was a factor. I suppose I did assume that I should answer the question asked and relevant info would be included.


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It's all good, gentlemen. Thanks for the replies.

The Defiant's ability is written to sound more absolute than it really is. In fact, the rulings in the FAQ seem to be downright contradictory on Cloaked Mines and Obstacles.

Quote:
Rulings

You are considered to be “defending” against anything that deals your ship damage, not just attacks. The U.S.S. Defiant's ability will trigger against damage effects like “staw:William T Riker”, “staw:Cloaked Mines”, and hitting obstacles. http://boardgamegeek.com/article/14188918#14188918

The U.S.S. Defiant's ability to change crits into hits applies in the “modify attack dice” portion of the combat phase. It will not negate crits that are set or re-rolled after this step from effects like “staw: Toreth”, “staw: Drex”, or a re-roll from a [target lock]. It will not negate crits inflicted in the activation phase by obstacles, or minefields created by "staw:Antimatter Mines" or "staw:Cloaked Mines"
http://boardgamegeek.com/article/13890081#13890081
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/14039148#14039148


Or am I missing something?
 
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Scooter of the Ancients
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I reposted your question in the FAQ thread, the Wiki reference is quite contradictory. Mines/obstacles do and don't trigger the Defiant.
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Thanks, Mordaenor. I hope Mr. Parks can clear it up for us.
 
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