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Subject: Last chance!!! rss

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Lester Festertester
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So only 100 late pledges are being offered by CMON here http://cmon.com/pledge/projects/arcadia-quest/

Only 60 left!! Chop chop!!
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JR Wr
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Real bummer that.
Won't touch it with undisclosed shipping.
And the bigger bummer is even if you pledged on the KS, if it wasn't high enough to get the game, you are not getting in on the pledge manager and must still go thru this late backer set up.
Doesn't feel right without knowing the full cost, including shipping.

Shame, because the game looks like fun.
And having missed out on a number of exclusives equal to half the created figures, I'll have to pass come retail as well.

Best of luck with the game.
Happy for those that did get and will get in on it.

Thanks for the heads up.
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Lester Festertester
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People can back and wait to see how much shipping is. CMON has already stated that they will give you a full refund if you think its too high.
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Darrell Goodridge
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I saw an estimate of around $11 for within US. Seems reasonable to me.
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Calvin Ho Yin Kwong
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necroloid123 wrote:
People can back and wait to see how much shipping is. CMON has already stated that they will give you a full refund if you think its too high.

I wouldn't bet on the refund due to shipping cost because CMON already back out on where they stand on the $1 pledge.
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Julien Le Jeune
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I am extremely confused right now. I dropped my pledge to $1 because I want to decide in a couple of months whether I want this game or not.

You're telling me that I not only can't do that this time, but that the number of seats are limited to 100 as well? I guess I'm out for good then!
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Calvin Ho Yin Kwong
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Shoogoo wrote:
I am extremely confused right now. I dropped my pledge to $1 because I want to decide in a couple of months whether I want this game or not.

You're telling me that I not only can't do that this time, but that the number of seats are limited to 100 as well? I guess I'm out for good then!


You are not alone. just by looking at the numbers, there are 173 people who pledge lower than $100...
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JR Wr
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necroloid123 wrote:
People can back and wait to see how much shipping is. CMON has already stated that they will give you a full refund if you think its too high.


True.
But I don't want to have to argue for a refund.
And I can likely guarantee you it will be your pledge minus KS and Amazon fees.

And like was already stated, Id asked directly if a $1 would get me in at manager time so that I could wait for shopping to see how much it was.
I was told yes.
Now that has changed.

$11 does sounds reasonable.
Even $15-18 does.
But is that what it's going to be?

The if you don't like the shipping well refund bit doesn't sit right for me.
Likewise neither does changing it so even low backers have to do the PayPal bit.
And even further saying initially it was going to be 200 slots.
Dust settles, and it's 100.

Like I said, happy for anyone who gets in on it.
Bummer I won't be one of them.
Looked like a good game
 
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JR Wr
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Shoogoo wrote:
I am extremely confused right now. I dropped my pledge to $1 because I want to decide in a couple of months whether I want this game or not.

You're telling me that I not only can't do that this time, but that the number of seats are limited to 100 as well? I guess I'm out for good then!


Yup.
You have it right.

Your $1 pledge, just like mine, only buys you the KS updates.
Period.
If you want to be in the manager, you have to buy in, now, thru PayPal or miss out.

I'm not sure about their new direction with this KS regarding both the shipping and this bit.
They've always allowed people in at manager time.

Suppose this'll be the last CMON KS I even glance if this is their new model.
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Eli Curtz
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Well, to play Devil's advocate, if you only pledge $1 with the idea of coming back in a few months and deciding if you want to get in then you aren't really participating in the Kickstarter campaign, are you? I'm frankly surprised we haven't seen a pushback against all the post-campaign add-ons, Paypal pledges and similar shenanigans before now.
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JR Wr
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ecurtz wrote:
Well, to play Devil's advocate, if you only pledge $1 with the idea of coming back in a few months and deciding if you want to get in then you aren't really participating in the Kickstarter campaign, are you? I'm frankly surprised we haven't seen a pushback against all the post-campaign add-ons, Paypal pledges and similar shenanigans before now.


True.
And valid point.

It's just the combo of the change at the last minute and shipping that's a bummer.

Like I said, I'm on this side of the fence, not there.
But I can't see how it hurts to let people in later.
For me, with so many exclusives, it's all or none.
Later in never.

And I'd not be surprised to know I'm not one of only few that agree.

Not hating, just bummed.
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Lester Festertester
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Frankley, I am glad they are doing it this way. It appears the the main reason is that they can only take so many extra pledges if they want to stay on time for fulfillment. Maybe the reason CMON is constantly late is due to the larger than expected amounts of extra pledges that they get in the pledge manager.
 
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JR Wr
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necroloid123 wrote:
Frankley, I am glad they are doing it this way. It appears the the main reason is that they can only take so many extra pledges if they want to stay on time for fulfillment. Maybe the reason CMON is constantly late is due to the larger than expected amounts of extra pledges that they get in the pledge manager.


So they said.
Possible. Time will tell.
 
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Lester Festertester
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ropya wrote:
necroloid123 wrote:
Frankley, I am glad they are doing it this way. It appears the the main reason is that they can only take so many extra pledges if they want to stay on time for fulfillment. Maybe the reason CMON is constantly late is due to the larger than expected amounts of extra pledges that they get in the pledge manager.


So they said.
Possible. Time will tell.
Logically I think they are telling the truth. I mean if it was not the case then they would just sit back and take as many late pledges as they can.
 
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Eli Curtz
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ropya wrote:

It's just the combo of the change at the last minute and shipping that's a bummer.

Like I said, I'm on this side of the fence, not there.
But I can't see how it hurts to let people in later.
For me, with so many exclusives, it's all or none.
Later in never.

And I'd not be surprised to know I'm not one of only few that agree.

Not hating, just bummed.


Yeah, and I agree the last minute change is very poor form. I personally think they should accommodate you and the other $1 pledgers this time around. If they want to make a policy change like that they need to be more explicit about it and get their story straight from the beginning.
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Kirk Bauer
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For the record, as somebody who does pledge via KS, I'm not sure how I feel about the policy of letting people pay money much later via PayPal. Or maybe even at all.

See, my money gets you stretch goals, your money doesn't help me though. My money was tied up for longer too. I am going to have to stop pledging much during these campaigns and start giving them the money later too. If everybody does this, no more stretch goals for anybody.

I'm not suggesting the solution, I'm just saying if everybody feels entitled to free-ride off of the stretch goals without fronting the money like the backers, then I may have to reconsider when and how I support future projects.

Perhaps I'm misreading or misunderstanding the concerns here, if so I apologize.
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Lester Festertester
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Half gone! Down to the last 50!
 
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CMON had some much need changes to the way they run kickstarters in this campaign. I would have liked to see the shipping included during the KS (though I understand the reason), but a finite number of stretch goals and having the KS actually end instead of stretching on for 6+ months are both moving things in a better and likely more manageable direction.


A note on the above comments about getting refunds if you don't like the shipping. Full refunds are only available withing 60 day and its unlikely they'll have the quotes for shipping by then. After 60 days its still a no questions asked refund but minus the KS fees.
 
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Barry Hood
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My guess is that this is more to do with the imminent SDE Kickstarter than getting their numbers right. They always order extras of everything to cover shipping issues, I've heard this is usually between 5-10%, and the 173 who pledged at $1 are well within that margin at 3.5%, however a few people said they'd pledge a buck to keep their place open then wait to see what SDE offers before deciding. This feels like a ploy to force their hand for two reasons:

1) It came very late in the day and goes against everything they've done in previous campaigns and everything they've been telling people in this campaign up until the end. If they knew they needed confirmed orders by a certain date this would have been factored into delivery much earlier and they would have mentioned it before the last couple of updates, on the other hand if this was forced by a chance in policy by a third party they would likely have mentioned that as a way to defuse people's anger, instead they attribute it to 'a large number of backers and a short lead time'? That sounds like an excuse - after all, this is not their first KS and last year's Zombicide 2 KS had double the number of backers, and many more stretch goals and add-ons and the same lead time, and while they made a huge mess of things with their early delivery promise and then a bunch of bad communication, they still got many pledges out on time and most of us who had to wait only had to do so for a couple of extra weeks, and that included lost containers and changes to the way customs handled things that added a few weeks unexpectedly. This is a much more streamlined and modest KS so easily manageable in the same timescale.

2) The 100 limit. I can understand a time limit, but if all they are doing is waiting to put in an order for X items, then why the numerical limit? This is a classic tactic used by TV shopping channels, 'order now, we only have 50 in stock!' when in fact they have 500 in stock and they'll rerun the exact same 'limited stock' sale later in the day. It creates a false sense of urgency. The weird thing about their 100 pledge limit is that even if it's true, it won't help them to determine final numbers anyway because every one of those 4700 backers who pledged at guildmaster and above will still be able to play around with their pledge in the pledge manager after the supposed cut off point. Some of them might order duplicates of optional purchases, some might order multiple copies of the base game (several people are already offering to help out late comers to get around the limit), while other people may put money pledged towards shipping meaning they actually order less than expected. Given 4700 people are going to be doing this already, accounting for an extra couple of hundred doesn't seem like some logistical nightmare by any means. And I'd be willing to bet that once that initial 100 places sells out they'll graciously create some more.

By creating this artificial scarcity my guess is CMoN are hoping to prod some of those on the fence people to make their decision before SDE can steal their thunder. It's not a move without some savvy on their part I guess, after all if it backfires they can always claim to have crunched some numbers and figured out they have a few more spaces/a little more time. People who want in aren't likely to care what the real reasons are.

Anyway, this is sounding negative and that wasn't my initial intention at all, I just like trying to deduce the real meaning behind CMoN's updates since they play their cards so close to their chest, it's kind of a meta game in itself

So now the positive - for me at least I was willing to give them a huge benefit of the doubt over shipping. I've said for a long time KS campaigns should offer transparency in shipping costs, living in a major European shipping hub I'm sick of subsidising shipping to the entirety of Europe, or in some cases, to the entirety of the world. I'll be more than happy to pay actual shipping from Germany to the UK. Of course if the final price is two or three times higher than their estimate I might change my mind, but if they get it right to within a few Euros then this will make me happy. I would have preferred to know the final price up front, but I think CMoN should be applauded for trying something new designed to make things a bit fairer, especially when it's likely that this move has cost them sales and may cost them more when final shipping prices go out. Kudos to them for that, it's pretty ballsy and hopefully it pays off meaning it will be a bit more organised and with more information available up front in the future.

Secondly, I agree that a defined cut off for late pledges should help them be more organised and is a positive step (I just don't believe the reason given for the fixed number).

PS full disclosure, I'm in for $132 plus shipping.
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Orlando theTech
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I think it's very unlikely they're 'gaming' things with only 100 slots available for these $1/post KS pledgers

even if all 100 spent $200 (the game plus a bunch of extras) it would still only represent 2.7% or so extra revenue far to small a sum to pay for the hassle & potential negative publicity

I think it's much more likely they have a tight slot in the factories manufacturing schedule and are worried about getting stuff finished on time if they allow everybody to jump in.

(when they first mentioned the issue they planned to have 200 or so slots, but the numbers pledging clearly were higher than expected hence the drop to 100)

personally I think they'd be better to let anybody who pledged during the KS in (and risk delays) but considering the hassle they've had with other projects I can understand why they didn't

 
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Barry Hood
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Then how do you account for the fact that people who are already "in" can adjust their pledge after the cut off point via the pledge manager? If only 5% order extras that's still 240 people or 2.4 times as many as the mystical 100. In fact those 100 people could each pledge 100 bucks now to get access to the pledge manager and still order a ton of extra stuff later, after this cut off point. Sorry but merely repeating what CMoN have said without explaining away the huge flaw in their logic doesn't advance the discussion. Having a cut off date makes sense, having a 100 backer limit simply does not, not when it does nothing in terms of confirming order numbers.
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Darrell Goodridge
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I personally wasn't sure how the add-ons worked, so I included the extra for what I wanted in my pledge. I had only done one other project that had add-ons so I didn't remember if you could add funds or just use what was there.
 
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I'm with Barry on this one. Everything they have said regarding this policy was undone by simple logic.

I naturally assumed, based on what they were saying, that as a full backer at $100, I wouldn't be able to add another $100 pledge (for a second copy). Nope. They've told me specifically that I can add more "Guildmaster" pledges in the pledge manager.

Unless they feel very confident that X backers equals Y extras ordered, this whole idea of locking down their order smells very fishy.

I don't honestly care, of course. I agree with Kirk above: if you wanted in at the $100 level, then pledge the money. I ponied up to get more stretch goals, so should you. As Kirk points out, if everyone tries to game the system, the system will break. For everyone.

The sense of entitlement surrounding this Kickstarter here on BGG is pretty astounding. It's really pretty simple: vendor promises X for Y money. Buy it or don't.

(edit: heh, of course it's Y + Z money, with shipping being Z) laugh
 
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Matt S
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Like Barry mentioned I think the 100 backer limit is to provide urgency but I am not sure how hard of a limit that is and I expect it might go higher if there were more who want in than the 100.

I think CMON forced the minimum buy for a few main reasons.

One being that we saw constant discussion about pledging just $1 to get into the pledge manager and waiting until the dust settles between this and other campaigns (not just SDE:FK). In the past CMON has let people do the $1 thing when that person messaged them directly, it was know that they did it just not for general purposes. It was the exception to the minimum purchase rule and we were treating it like it was the way things were suppose to work. So we the backers kinda messed that up for ourselves.

Another is that if they do not limit the late backers it seems to go around KS all together. Eventually KS will get mad about this but right now KS is making tons of money off of the board game industry right now.

Third they do need to be able to estimate some form of base units. From the previous campaigns they can tell about what percent of people add in extra of the pledge levels and can account for that once they know how many are going to be in.

One thing I do hope to see happen is if you are one of the $1 backers because you wanted to support the product but for budgetary reasons couldn't do the guildmaster level and contact them directly explaining things and asking to get in they might do it.
 
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John Wiser
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I think I will wait to see what Super Dungeon Explore has to offer. Arcadia Quest reminds me to much of Cadwallon: City of Thieves meets Super Dungeon Explore. Could not pull the trigger on this one (Arcadia Quest) but wish it the best.
 
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