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Subject: Order of Minion Abilities rss

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Travis Vandenberg
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If there is a Leprechaun on a base and you play a Bear Cavalry on that base, is your Bear Cavalry still destroyed? I know the Leprechaun would be moved but would that impact whether the Bear was destroyed or not? The leprechaun states that the minion has to be played "here" so if the leprechaun is moved perhaps its effect doesn't apply anymore.

Similarly, for those who have the Science Fiction Double Feature expansion, if you play an action that kills the Secret Agent (5 power minion "Ongoing: After another player plays an action, he or she must discard a card", do you still have to discard? If you resolve your own cards before opponent cards, it would appear that you wouldn't have to deal with the secret agent effect.

My confusion in this is that I've always believed that the order that you use when playing a minion is first to place the minion on the base, then resolve any of the minions abilities and benefits from your other cards, then resolve any base effects, and finally resolve any opponents' card effects. This could lead to some odd calls though.

For example, can you play a War Raptor on Tsar's Palace since its power jumps up to 3 as soon as it is played? If not, then what if you use Howl first? For those that have the SFDF expansion, can you play a Mimic (0 power, "Ongoing: This minion's power is equal to the highest power printed on a minion card in play") there? My assumption is that since this sounds like more of a restriction than an effect, it would take precedence over your own minion effects and would only look at the printed power.

Can anyone help me out on this or clarify what order things should be done in?
 
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David Combs
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I don't know if it's in the rules or was addressed in another thread, but I believe when multiple actions/abilities would occur at the same time, the player whose turn it is gets to choose the order they take effect.
 
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Simon Tan
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WhatAChamp wrote:
If there is a Leprechaun on a base and you play a Bear Cavalry on that base, is your Bear Cavalry still destroyed? I know the Leprechaun would be moved but would that impact whether the Bear was destroyed or not? The leprechaun states that the minion has to be played "here" so if the leprechaun is moved perhaps its effect doesn't apply anymore.

Similarly, for those who have the Science Fiction Double Feature expansion, if you play an action that kills the Secret Agent (5 power minion "Ongoing: After another player plays an action, he or she must discard a card", do you still have to discard? If you resolve your own cards before opponent cards, it would appear that you wouldn't have to deal with the secret agent effect.

My confusion in this is that I've always believed that the order that you use when playing a minion is first to place the minion on the base, then resolve any of the minions abilities and benefits from your other cards, then resolve any base effects, and finally resolve any opponents' card effects. This could lead to some odd calls though.

For example, can you play a War Raptor on Tsar's Palace since its power jumps up to 3 as soon as it is played? If not, then what if you use Howl first? For those that have the SFDF expansion, can you play a Mimic (0 power, "Ongoing: This minion's power is equal to the highest power printed on a minion card in play") there? My assumption is that since this sounds like more of a restriction than an effect, it would take precedence over your own minion effects and would only look at the printed power.

Can anyone help me out on this or clarify what order things should be done in?


The ability of the minion that was played goes first, then any other abilities follow afterwards. Those other abilities, be it from a base, other minions, other actions, etc., are what can be resolved in the order of the current player.

For the Leprechaun vs. Bear Cavalry scenario, you can move the Leprechaun and, when the Leprechaun's ability tries to kick in, it finds that it actually in not on the same base as the played Bear Cavalry, and does nothing.

* For the Secret Agent question, unless AEG says otherwise, eliminating the Agent will not stop the discard from happening, so you'll still have to discard. (If I'm not mistaken, this is the first time this particular question was asked.)

In the case of the Tsar's Palace, you have to actually play the minion on a base before any ongoing power increases take effect. This means that a War Raptor will not get his power boost until you play it, neither will Howl affect it, nor Mimic's ability take place, since you can't even play it onto the Tsar's Palace in the first place.

***

As a shameless plugin, there is a compilation of Intensive FAQs in the works.
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Travis Vandenberg
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goodshepherd wrote:
WhatAChamp wrote:
If there is a Leprechaun on a base and you play a Bear Cavalry on that base, is your Bear Cavalry still destroyed? I know the Leprechaun would be moved but would that impact whether the Bear was destroyed or not? The leprechaun states that the minion has to be played "here" so if the leprechaun is moved perhaps its effect doesn't apply anymore.

Similarly, for those who have the Science Fiction Double Feature expansion, if you play an action that kills the Secret Agent (5 power minion "Ongoing: After another player plays an action, he or she must discard a card", do you still have to discard? If you resolve your own cards before opponent cards, it would appear that you wouldn't have to deal with the secret agent effect.

My confusion in this is that I've always believed that the order that you use when playing a minion is first to place the minion on the base, then resolve any of the minions abilities and benefits from your other cards, then resolve any base effects, and finally resolve any opponents' card effects. This could lead to some odd calls though.

For example, can you play a War Raptor on Tsar's Palace since its power jumps up to 3 as soon as it is played? If not, then what if you use Howl first? For those that have the SFDF expansion, can you play a Mimic (0 power, "Ongoing: This minion's power is equal to the highest power printed on a minion card in play") there? My assumption is that since this sounds like more of a restriction than an effect, it would take precedence over your own minion effects and would only look at the printed power.

Can anyone help me out on this or clarify what order things should be done in?


The ability of the minion that was played goes first, then any other abilities follow afterwards. Those other abilities, be it from a base, other minions, other actions, etc., are what can be resolved in the order of the current player.

For the Leprechaun vs. Bear Cavalry scenario, you can move the Leprechaun and, when the Leprechaun's ability tries to kick in, it finds that it actually in not on the same base as the played Bear Cavalry, and does nothing.

* For the Secret Agent question, unless AEG says otherwise, eliminating the Agent will not stop the discard from happening, so you'll still have to discard. (If I'm not mistaken, this is the first time this particular question was asked.)

In the case of the Tsar's Palace, you have to actually play the minion on a base before any ongoing power increases take effect. This means that a War Raptor will not get his power boost until you play it, neither will Howl affect it, nor Mimic's ability take place, since you can't even play it onto the Tsar's Palace in the first place.

***

As a shameless plugin, there is a compilation of Intensive FAQs in the works.


Thanks for the response. I actually agree with pretty much everything you said. I guess the idea is that even if a minion gets destroyed/moved/returned to hand, its ability still happens, albeit after your minion's ability
 
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J
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I actually missed this thread while waiting for my set to arrive. I would like to expand on some of the rulings and I do disagree slightly with them but again till we receive an official word on it (haha) we may never know.

goodshepherd wrote:

The ability of the minion that was played goes first, then any other abilities follow afterwards. Those other abilities, be it from a base, other minions, other actions, etc., are what can be resolved in the order of the current player.


The Key here is to look for the word "After" on the card in play. If the card in play has "After... blah blah blab" than it occurs after the effect (play, move, ect) that would trigger the response occurs.

Quote:
For the Leprechaun vs. Bear Cavalry scenario, you can move the Leprechaun and, when the Leprechaun's ability tries to kick in, it finds that it actually in not on the same base as the played Bear Cavalry, and does nothing.

I agree with this though I would look at it more as the Leprechaun's "triggering effect" is never satisfied so it doesn't even try to "kick in" in the first place.

Quote:

* For the Secret Agent question, unless AEG says otherwise, eliminating the Agent will not stop the discard from happening, so you'll still have to discard. (If I'm not mistaken, this is the first time this particular question was asked.)

Now here we are in disagreement but it's no real fault of ours but rather because the exact nature of the answer is tricky. The question here is how and when do abilities resolve. If the Secret Agent is removed prior to his ability triggering than there is no discard. If his ability triggers first than there is a discard.

It sounds to me that you are treating the triggerings like such:

•Action is played (but does not resolve)
•SA's ability is triggered (but does not resolve due to the word "after")
•Action resolves (Possibly removing SA)
•SA's ability resolves (Regardless if SA is there or not)

In other words you are treating the words "After another player plays an action" not as an indication of when the ability triggers but as an indication of when the ability resolves. However I would argue that instead this is the order of events.

•Action is played and resolves
•SA's ability triggers and resolves (if SA is still there)

and as such there would be no discard if the action gets rid of SA. As usual we have no explicit ruling on this but I'm basing this on the Leprechaun which we known activates the second way and not the first and I would assume that SA is the same.
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Charles Riggs
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allstar64 wrote:

...and as such there would be no discard if the action gets rid of SA. As usual we have no explicit ruling on this but I'm basing this on the Leprechaun which we known activates the second way and not the first and I would assume that SA is the same.


Agreed, however... If we make a more complex setup with a Nukebot in play and someone plays Copycat on the same base as the SA and copies the Nukebot's ability. Next he uses an action card to destroy that Copycat (with Seeing Stars for example).
Now that player must discard a card because Nukebot's ability kicks in after he is destroyed.... right? a bit tricky this is
 
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J
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Rixino wrote:
allstar64 wrote:

...and as such there would be no discard if the action gets rid of SA. As usual we have no explicit ruling on this but I'm basing this on the Leprechaun which we known activates the second way and not the first and I would assume that SA is the same.


Agreed, however... If we make a more complex setup with a Nukebot in play and someone plays Copycat on the same base as the SA and copies the Nukebot's ability. Next he uses an action card to destroy that Copycat (with Seeing Stars for example).
Now that player must discard a card because Nukebot's ability kicks in after he is destroyed.... right? :p a bit tricky this is


Good question and yes it is much trickier. I'd actually defer to the rule that:
Quote:

If multiple effects would happen
at the same time, the player whose
turn it is chooses the order.


Nukebot activates after it is destroyed, SA activates after an action has been played. In this particular case those two are the same time so the current player chooses which one trips first and if he chooses Copycat the SA gets taken out before his ability activates.
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Charles Riggs
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Ahh yes, the multiple rule. That settles it for me ^^
 
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