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Subject: Do you need LOS to damage other Aliens via Area Damage? rss

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Andrew Sekela
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Let's say you shoot at an Alien within range and LOS, and you have an effect that causes Area Damage. Do you need to have LOS to the other Aliens in the target area to hit them? Do you have to be able to draw LOS from the original target to other Aliens within the same area to hit them? (i.e., what if there is a wall between the original target and another Alien)

I am playing Mission 11. The S1/S2 boards have a lot of walls. Hence my question...
 
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Duane Crago
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My common sense says that if it is not in LOS from your Agent then the attack wouldn't hit it on an AoE spread. You would only be able to hit the ones that are in that LOS.
 
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Tom H
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Skyrek wrote:
My common sense says that if it is not in LOS from your Agent then the attack wouldn't hit it on an AoE spread. You would only be able to hit the ones that are in that LOS.

What about a grenade? Surely that hits all enemy's in the area.

Personally I just hit the whole area when doing area damage. It's the rules say to do AFAIK.
 
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Duane Crago
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I was thinking more of the Biotech's shotgun or other gun for the original response.

A grenade or explosive device should be able to spread around even the LOS aspect of the area unless there was a full wall between the original target and the other target. I suppose it would depend on how strong you consider the grenade blast as to if it would somehow actually damage the alien on the other side in a case like that.
 
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Jeff Yeackle
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Yeah, sometimes it doesn't make sense (bullet weapons) to be able to hit targets out of LOS in an area with area damage, but the rules do state to apply the hits. Maybe they're ricochets.

Page 22: 7.6 Weapons : Area Damage: the attack affects all targets in the area; each target must defend separately against the rolled hits.

Page 25: 7.7.2.1 Grenades : When an agent attacks with a grenade, he rolls the specified dice. All aliens in the area must defend against any HITS rolled as normal.

I was wondering if there should be a rule stating area damage cannot cross a LOS barrier (maybe there is and I missed it).
 
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Duane Crago
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I'm not at home so can't say for sure. If not it should be an advanced rule. I've been playing it mostly solo so I'm going with my logic call when I run in to those situations.

Though in general definitely can go for it if the rules are only stating it as all in the area
 
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Jeff Yeackle
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OK, thought I'd seen something, here it is although it could still be argued:

5.1 Types of Terrain : hexes which are separated by a blocked hex side are not considered to be adjacent.

For myself, I'll probably limit the effects of bullet style area damage to those that are in LOS of the attacker, and explosion style to any other targets in the area w/in LOS of the target. That keeps it simple but limits bullets punching through cover. Probably won't come up enough to matter.
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Skaak
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I've been playing that area damage hits all aliens, regardless of LOS (obviously you have to have LOS to the first alien). I consider it a wonky side effect of the area-based approach (maybe the bullets are ricocheting around or something).

It's not that much weirder to me than hitting an alien with a shotgun blast for area damage, that doesn't damage the two aliens standing immediately adjacent (because they are technically in a separate area).
 
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Purple Paladin

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I thought I read another link that said, via the Devs, that you only need LOS to any hex in one area, to do AOE in that one area.
 
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Simone Romano
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Hi agents,

You just need LOS to attack the main target, all other aliens in the same area will be attacked too, if the weapon has an Area Damage effect, regardless the LOS with these aliens.

Hope it can helps cool
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Hero Guy
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I've found that when you start applying 'real-world logic' to games, then things will stop making sense. And in this case we really have nowhere near enough info to determine how something would happen 'in real life'. For instance how do we know that the shotgun isn't loaded with some sort of armor piercing round? How do we know that the walls in question are thick enough to withstand a close-range shot gun blast? Why don't the walls get destroyed when I throw a grenade into the area? If my shotgun has an area effect of 7 hexes, then why can I not effect an alien that is adjacent to me, in a different hex, even though it would normally be in the 'spray area'?

Best to leave 'real-world physics/logic' at the door when you play any game. Take the red pill and welcome to the Matrix.
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Roger
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Hero_guy wrote:
I've found that when you start applying 'real-world logic' to games, then things will stop making sense. ..Best to leave 'real-world physics/logic' at the door when you play any game. .

Ditto. This should be posted as sticky to any rules forum.
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Mike Malley
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jasperrdm wrote:
Hero_guy wrote:
I've found that when you start applying 'real-world logic' to games, then things will stop making sense. ..Best to leave 'real-world physics/logic' at the door when you play any game. .
Ditto. This should be posted as sticky to any rules forum.

Except for the fact that we tend to play games like this for the theme.
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Hero Guy
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caffeinehead wrote:
jasperrdm wrote:
Hero_guy wrote:
I've found that when you start applying 'real-world logic' to games, then things will stop making sense. ..Best to leave 'real-world physics/logic' at the door when you play any game. .
Ditto. This should be posted as sticky to any rules forum.

Except for the fact that we tend to play games like this for the theme.


But that's just it though. It is a game. As much as we may like to call things a simulation, the games are still bound by their own rules. If you're going to question why a Shotgun can shoot through a wall in this game, then why are you not wondering why grenades don't destroy walls? Why is it that we have satellites that can take a picture of the hairs on your head, but we can't tell if a signal in the middle of a desert is a human or alien? And who's to say that GD didn't develop all of their ballistic weapons with special armor (and therefore wall) piercing capabilities?

The rules state how area damage is handled in the game. It does not get effected by blocking terrain. If someone chooses to use a house rule, more power to you. I encourage it if you find that the game is more enjoyable that way. But a question asked on the rules forum should be answered with rules in the official rulebook, or with a clear statement that your response is a house-rule.
 
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Roger
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caffeinehead wrote:
jasperrdm wrote:
Hero_guy wrote:
I've found that when you start applying 'real-world logic' to games, then things will stop making sense. ..Best to leave 'real-world physics/logic' at the door when you play any game. .
Ditto. This should be posted as sticky to any rules forum.

Except for the fact that we tend to play games like this for the theme.

I was speaking in general. Too many times, I have seen discussions of real-world logic disturb games. From falling damage in D&D to spotting subs rules in WW2 games.
 
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Mike Malley
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So was I. Things that don't thematically "make sense" break immersion just as often.

 
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