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Subject: Lost our first game, very badly. Might we have played wrong? rss

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Sparr Risher
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We played against La Capitan, who is supposed to have a 2 (out of 4?) difficulty. The game started with a villain turn. Her card play was a Raiding Party, which put 4 crew into play. Her ship's additional card play was a Motley Crew, which put 3 crew into play. Those 7 crew proceeded to do something like 30 damage to us, before we ever had a turn. We managed to kill a couple of them during our turns, then on her second turn they did another ~30 damage, and we lost all of our equipment/ongoing cards (I can't remember which of her cards did that).

So, snapshot of the game at the start of our second turns was pretty much identical to the starting situation, with nothing on the table in front of us but all of us around half health.

We actually managed to kill her ship during round three, and it immediately came back out due to her card that makes it come back out. At no point in the game after her first turn did she have fewer than 4 crew, as we killed them and they just kept coming back every turn. We lost our first person in round three, and our last during round four.

Is there anything really obvious that we might have been doing wrong?
 
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Sylvain Gauthier
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Difficulty 2 for La Capitan is something my friends and I do not agree about.

She's a tough cookie..easily a difficulty 4.

We find The Chairman (difficulty 4) easier to beat.
 
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Duane Crago
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Oh, La Capitan is fun. I love fighting her a lot, but others I play with not so much

Not sure she was a good option to go with for a first play attempt, but it does depend on what heroes you brought along for the battle and of course some of it does come down to luck of the draw for your cards. Also the environment can play a factor in any battle depending on the combination of the rest.

What heroes did you have against her?
 
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Sparr Risher
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Skyrek wrote:
What heroes did you have against her?
Omnitron-X, Absolute Zero, The Visionary, Tachyon, Bunker

One of the villain crew healed 5 damage every time we played a card. We had a very hard time killing that one, and couldn't figure out a way to do it without a lot of people skipping plays so that our Tachyon could use his plating reflection ability on her.
 
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Benj Davis
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She's highly dependent on draw. Some of her piratey dudes are just punishingly mean.
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Roberta Yang
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sparr0 wrote:
Her card play was a Raiding Party, which put 4 crew into play. Her ship's additional card play was a Motley Crew, which put 3 crew into play.

If memory serves me correctly, one of those only puts crew into play from the villain trash, not the villain deck. At the start of the game the villain trash should be empty, so it shouldn't have been able to put any crew into play.

Of course, you might have just mixed up the names and gotten 2x Raiding Party as the villain's opening plays. In which case you seemed to do everything right, you just got the worst possible opening, which has a probability of about .005 of occurring (which gets even smaller if you also require the timeship to be resurrected as soon as it was destroyed).

It didn't help that your hero team was pretty heavy on heroes that start out slow and take a long time building up, which must have made it even harder to recover from that first turn.
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Aaron Phillips
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Warpig72 wrote:
Difficulty 2 for La Capitan is something my friends and I do not agree about.

She's a tough cookie..easily a difficulty 4.

We find The Chairman (difficulty 4) easier to beat.


I think La Capitan is probably the most "unstable" villain in the game right now. Depending on her play order (especially the first 2-3 turns), she can be either one of the easiest villains in the game or one of the hardest villains in the game, or somewhere in between.
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Josh
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La Capitan is no slouch, and our group always fighters to sink La Boat(as we call it) as fast as possible to slow her down, but it does sound like you hit a horrible draw. I'd play a few more times and see how things even out. If you're still facing 2-3 turn wipes you might be playing wrong, but I suspect you'll find this was an aberration rather than the norm.
 
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Gabriel Newman
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La Captain Is a hard challenge. Easily a 4. I won by the skin of my teeth when I played and we are experienced players. She will always be one of the best but one of the hardest villains.
 
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Roberta Yang
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cgrater wrote:
I think La Capitan is probably the most "unstable" villain in the game right now. Depending on her play order (especially the first 2-3 turns), she can be either one of the easiest villains in the game or one of the hardest villains in the game, or somewhere in between.

I have to agree. Villains have always had some villain cards that are better than others (compare Dawn's Luminous Leadership to Dawn's Devastating Aurora), but sometime around Infernal Relics the good cards got standardized into "One-shot: Reveal cards from the top of the villain deck until (H)-1 targets are revealed, put them into play and shuffle the other revealed cards into the villain deck". Effects like that appear nowhere in the base game or Rook City, but some minor variation of it appears in every Infernal Relics and Shattered Timelines villain deck except the Ennead and Iron Legacy (and arguably Gloomweaver, which is different enough to not run afoul of my last point below). In fact, even certain environments have effects like that now (Tomb of Anubis, The Block).

Shifting from "some cards do different, better things than other cards do" to "some cards are literally 4 other cards all at once" naturally increases the variance a lot, and La Capitan in particular leans heavily on being able to play a Raiding Party soon.

The new general format for the villains' "good" cards also makes it much easier to get a "stillborn" game in which the villain's first turn is too brutal to recover from. A lot of the base game villains' powerful cards did little at first but did more if played later in the game - e.g. Dawn's Devastating Aurora has nothing to destroy turn 1 but gets more powerful the longer the game goes and the more cards you play, Voss's Forced Deployment has no minions to revive at the start of the game but can do more and more as the game goes on and the villain trash grows.

But Raiding Party and its clones are just as powerful turn 1 as they are turn 10 - in fact, they might be more powerful turn 1, since by turn 10 there might not be enough Crew left in the deck for Raiding Party to fill its quota. The result is that in recent sets the villain gets to play their best card at maximum power before the heroes have had a chance to do anything. In my first game against Apostate, he opened with Infernal Summoning to put Tome of the Unknowable, Orb of Delerium, and Corrupted Effigy into play, and Corrupted Effigy then fetched the Runes of Malediction; the result was that until we could deal a total of 15 damage through Damage Taken -2, Apostate would play an extra card with every card we drew. The base game villains have power cards, but they don't have that kind of brutal opening move available.

Basically Raiding Party is a dumb card and all the clones of Raiding Party are dumb cards and copies of Raiding Party need to stop being included in every single villain deck because it's a really lazy and unimaginative way to make a few of the villain's cards unusually strong and it has very negative consequences for the game.
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Eddie
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Ok... euh... surprise
 
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Eddie
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AAAH!! I typed PARAGRAPHS of text and it didn't post it?!

God. I'm not typing it again. Just wanted to say my first game. Solo: 2 heroes. Mostly abandoned it. Came away with "I have to go update BGG on this". Going to rate it kinda :-/ ; was wondering what could I POSSIBLY have done wrong but the post-loss...

Summary in case just this is enough to understand what happened:
Haka + Legacy vs Omnitron in Megalopolis (all complexity "1" says the book right?)
Omnitron laughing while piles of drones and weapons come out.
my heroes doing nothing, NOTHING productive cuz mr Robot became "immune do melee until you do something else"... which I never could

And the bookkeeping... gulp and I love and rock at MK. LOTR:LCG...


 
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Bart
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For one, I'm pretty sure the minimum # of heroes is intended to be three; there's a fair number of H-2 cards out there, so would break in a 2 hero situation. Omnitron does spit out a lot of cards, so playing below min number of heroes would make it hard to keep up.
 
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Mark Langsdorf
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Yeah, if you'd just had Wraith in there as 3rd hero, that fight would have been easy: Legacy would Galvanize, Wraith would use Stun Bolts / Throwing Knives / Razor Ordinance with her Micro Targeting Computer for 4-6 projectile damage a turn on 1-3 targets depending on what you needed, and Haka would be using Smash, Mere, or Taika for 3-4 melee a turn. And Wraith could throw down some Grappling Hooks to take care of that annoying Adaptive Plating.

Always use 3 heroes, or the fan rules for a Sidekick deck.
 
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Sparr Risher
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mlangsdorf wrote:
Legacy would Galvanize, Wraith would use Stun Bolts / Throwing Knives / Razor Ordinance with her Micro Targeting Computer for 4-6 projectile damage a turn on 1-3 targets depending on what you needed, and Haka would be using Smash, Mere, or Taika for 3-4 melee a turn. And Wraith could throw down some Grappling Hooks to take care of that annoying Adaptive Plating.
I know I'm responding to something not about my specific game, but this sort of info seems really optimistic. We went three rounds without keeping a single ongoing or equipment card on the table for a whole round.
 
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Eddie
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Always use 3 heroes... ok good to know. I might give that a shot, and look up this "Sidekick" thing. But yikes, one more hero... even more crazy bookkeeping :-(
 
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