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Subject: Legend of The Verse Goal rss

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Justin Mazz
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Hi! I have a new end game up in the files section. In a nutshell: there's a deck of cards each with a "feat of notoriety" on them. You start the game with 4 showing, and replenish up to three for the rest of the game. Players can claim one on their turn (some off-turn) and first to the the agreed-upon level of notoriety is a "Legend of The Verse." I designed it so we could have a goal that changes a little every time, is easily accessible to new players and has a easily adaptable time frame. You can knock out a low notoriety game in 45 minutes or raise it and play all day. The low number games tend to get very tense!


I've play-tested it with a couple groups and had it blind play-tested as well. I've ironed out most of the questions. Yes some cards are imbalanced, but there's a big deck and it adds to the variety. Sometimes all three cards will be quickly claim-able, sometimes you'll be flying for a while just trying to get one. You also have a once-per-game majority vote mulligan option. It's all on the included goal card.
Please share any thoughts, insights, questions or hilarious misadventures.

A note of inspiration: I didn't realize until after I'd drafted the deck that the idea is "borrowed" heavily from the end game for the Kickstarter Xia: Legends of a Drift system. It has something like a Fame track that you can move along for doing notable things.

Also, not pretty yet. I like to save ink on my Beta Print N Plays. If it's a huge hit I'll pretty it up and make it shiny.

Finally: GWEK has been prolific on this board! Many thanks to him. While play testing this I found and added his "Local Color" deck. (Well worth checking out!) It worked well but also added a high level of frakkin over your opponents to this goal and made for some heated games. Use with caution.
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George Krubski
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Sounds really interesting. I'd love to check it out -- but how do I open the file?!?

Thanks for the call out, by the way. I'm kind of glad to hear that Local Color is helping inspire some "heated" play. That was one of the goals!
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Justin Mazz
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It's a rar file. I use Winrar to open it. Free archive program. I've uploaded a zipped version as well just pending admin approval.
 
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Ziemek
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"Legend of the Verse Goal" works better than official Story Cards! It was great idea!
 
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Judy Krauss
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intertense wrote:
It's a rar file. I use Winrar to open it. Free archive program. I've uploaded a zipped version as well just pending admin approval.


Stuffit Expander (free) works, too.
 
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James Fung
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I approve of this idea because it's similar to the one I've been mulling over. laugh Except instead of notoriety, I called them "narrative points." (My variant where players save crew was also supposed to give narrative points. The idea is to play until you have a good story.) Here's some things to think about:

1) Rather than having a deck or stack of goals, goals are placed face down at planets. Landing on a planet lets you look at the goal. This gets players exploring parts of the map other than the major trade lanes between supply planets.

2) Goals that go together or have to be done in sequence. To be honest, I never thought of a good solution to this. My last (untested) idea was to give each goal some colors and numbers. Goals with the same color would go together, and numbers give them some sequence. For example, a goal might be blue/green and 2-3, meaning you could use it to fulfill the blue or green "campaign," and the card could be used for step 2 or 3 (not both). This way players could pursue different campaigns but still compete for the same goals.
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George Krubski
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Definitely some good stuff, Justin. I agree that there's a bit of imbalance, but there's so much randomness that it's really hard to balance relative power level in many cases. Sure, some of the goals are super easy... but only if they come up!

The interesting thing to me is that this shows the flexibility of the game design of the Firefly game. Although the base game is designed around doing Jobs, it's possible to win using your Goal system without having ever completed a job (certainly, with minimal jobs, depending on the luck of the draw).

I could see where there are some very dangerous interactions with something like Local Color, almost like two big wheels spinning next to each other, and depending on how things line up, it could be very, very bad!

Personally, I DO like the Story Cards, so the high degree of randomness bothers me a bit. Still, I get that not everyone likes 'em, but I can't help but wonder if there's some way to do things in the middle (like James seems to be suggesting with his color-coded idea to pursue parallel campaigns).

The important part, though is to have a goal that's mutually exclusive: if one player wins, the others lose. That's why the Story Cards work, and that's why this idea works (goal = become the best/most notorious captain -- there can be only one!).

Something in the middle, where there are multiple threads to follow, introduces the idea that multiple people could be equally successful. Similar challenge with running multiple Story Cards at once...

Anyway, despite my ramblings -- good stuff!
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Hardboiled Gregg
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I had considered something vaguely-inspired by deck-building games whereby there were groups of varied goals, similar to the ones here, but with different point values based on difficulty. So you'd have a pile of 7-10 (or however many) easier goals that are worth 1 point, then another pile of goals worth 2 points, and others worth 3, then 4. Perhaps higher, but I'd be hesitant.

They're all open so everyone can see what they could aim for and the game ends when either 1-2 of the piles are exhausted, with the winner having the most points (or in case of a tie, most higher value goal cards).

Obviously it would require a lot of testing to find the right balance with regards to goal difficulty and how high to go with points, and number of cards (fewer ones that are worth more points perhaps) but it should help to keep gameplay fairly 'open' without coming down to just making the most money.

In terms of a deck-building mechanic like in Dominion, where getting the all-important victory points has the adverse affect of taking up space where usable cards would be, the higher value goals could apply detriments/handicaps (ones that would have a small, sustained effect). However, that's more of a 'bonus' thing at the moment. You'd have to get the first part right, really.
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Jon Snow
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arrrh Amazing! The Notoriety Cards are funny and well thought out. You may have "solved" the story aspect of the game design (as it currently exists before Expansions) with a quick and creative fix! Future generations may trumpet your name.

I've printed out the zip file (which you have to 'Extract' first to print out). I will hopefully be play testing this as soon as I can call the troops together again, and let you know how it went.

(Edit) QUESTIONS:

1. Rule/Story Card "Cards claimed off-turn do not count towards this total." If these do not count toward your notoriety total, why claim them? Can you claim them just to take them out of the game to prevent others from claiming them? (This would make no sense to me). And if so, how often? Or do you mean "Cards may only be claimed off-turn when stated on the card."(?)

2. Real Go Getter: By "Must have 5 completed missions" do you mean have earned 5 Goals?

Since a lot of people will be seeing the STORY CARD, here are a few small EDITS for it:

The Set Up

"Setup" in the text should be "set up." (two words).

Victory "proved his metal" should be "mettle."

I will ask more questions if any come up. Thanks for your effort!

Another possibilility would be to use this as an Alternate Victory Condition while pursuing a regular story card. This would provide options, especially during changing conditions, to keep you in the game if the story goals become very difficult due to setbacks encountered--especially with the greater player interaction to be delivered by the expansion Pirates and Bounty Hunters. If used this way, the first person to complete the story card OR reach the agreed upon level of Notoriety would win! That could get very interesting.
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Ziemek
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Is it possible to make background to the cards?
 
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Justin Mazz
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I haven't put any graphics since I was hoping to get some feedback and make some changes. If I don't get any feedback I'll probably add graphics to the deck and do a back side to the cards in the next week or two and upload a final version.

I do some graphic work on my own, but if anyone has any talent or ideas, please contact me. I'd love input or graphics better than mine!

Help Please! ***

Anyone with changes, feedback, typos and ideas for new notoriety please let me know! I'd love to add and have a community enhanced final version. I don't plan on removing any cards, since all of them were put in for one reason or another and it's easy to just not include them when you shuffle the deck if you don't like them, so I'm open to adding any crazy ideas that people have as long as they aren't too left field!
 
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Mary Kay

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I've been working on some graphics for this set. Here's an image of the card back and as two images of card faces. Let me know if this is the kind of thing you had in mind.



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Justin Mazz
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Mary Kay, these look great! If you're up to it, I'd like to have a set of print at home, i.e. a few pages, one of all backs and a page each with the different cards, but for myself I'd like to order an artscow deck which I think requires the individual cards for upload. Is either or both possible?
 
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Mary Kay

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I've uploaded the pdf pages I have (1 with 8 card backs per page and the other 7 each with individual card face) to the Files section here. We'll see how long it take to show up there.

To make the card faces come out as an even number of 8 per page, Steve and I wrote a few additional card face texts.

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Mitchell Miller
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chas59 wrote:
arrrh Amazing! The Notoriety Cards are funny and well thought out. You may have "solved" the story aspect of the game design (as it currently exists before Expansions) with a quick and creative fix! Future generations may trumpet your name.

I've printed out the zip file (which you have to 'Extract' first to print out). I will hopefully be play testing this as soon as I can call the troops together again, and let you know how it went.

(Edit) QUESTIONS:

1. Rule/Story Card "Cards claimed off-turn do not count towards this total." If these do not count toward your notoriety total, why claim them? Can you claim them just to take them out of the game to prevent others from claiming them? (This would make no sense to me). And if so, how often? Or do you mean "Cards may only be claimed off-turn when stated on the card."(?)

2. Real Go Getter: By "Must have 5 completed missions" do you mean have earned 5 Goals?

Since a lot of people will be seeing the STORY CARD, here are a few small EDITS for it:

The Set Up

"Setup" in the text should be "set up." (two words).

Victory "proved his metal" should be "mettle."

I will ask more questions if any come up. Thanks for your effort!

Another possibilility would be to use this as an Alternate Victory Condition while pursuing a regular story card. This would provide options, especially during changing conditions, to keep you in the game if the story goals become very difficult due to setbacks encountered--especially with the greater player interaction to be delivered by the expansion Pirates and Bounty Hunters. If used this way, the first person to complete the story card OR reach the agreed upon level of Notoriety would win! That could get very interesting.


Have these questions been answered?
 
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Justin Mazz
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Ooops! I never saw Jon Snow's edit with the questions...

1.Cards claimed off turn do not count towards your "One notoriety card may be claimed per turn" total. i.e. you may claim one during someone else's turn if stated on the card and then claim another one o your next turn.

2.Wording issue, should say 5 completed Jobs. i.e. job cards from any of the contacts.

Thank you for your input on the edits Jon. Thank you everyone else for playing. I'm working on an update to include P&BH. I'll put info up when it comes around.

 
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Robin Levins
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My wife and I have been playing with a print-and-play version of this, and have loved it! I shamelessly adopted much of the styling by marykay11 of these cards in making a custom print-on-demand version of the cards. I tried to upload them through the Geekmod, but were rejected as Duplicate (???). In any case, here are pictures uploaded from to my personal gallery:



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Dangerous Partners
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Excellent - is that all from just the pdf file ?
 
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Robin Levins
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BeerAndBoard wrote:
Excellent - is that all from just the pdf file ?

I used the styling from the PDF file to make separate images for each card. So...kind of. I also re-worded some cards I thought could use a bit more clarity and changed one goal slightly. After enjoying this expansion several times with flimsy sheets of paper versions, I can't wait to try it with these cards.
 
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Dangerous Partners
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Taking orders ?
 
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Robin Levins
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BeerAndBoard wrote:
Taking orders ?

Nope, I'm not selling them (I'm not sure what sort of license I'd have to do it, and I don't want to step on any toes), but I'm willing to discuss further over PM.
 
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Dangerous Partners
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Definitely don't want you to market anything not yours, accept my compliments on your work anyway.
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Justin Mazz
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Robin! Those look great! I want a set now!

I've been life busy but started working on a P&BH mini expansion for Legends and I've held off on finishing so I could throw in some Blue Sun cards as well. A few cards from the original have to be re-worded anyway now that the expansions are out.

Where did you have yours printed?
When I'm finishing up my new cards I'd love to get in touch with you and find out what clarifications you made so I can add them.

Great work!
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Mike Dawson
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In a similar fashion to Georges Local Colour deck, do you have it set up on ArtsCow for others to order? If not, could you? We have tried this a couple of times and really like the sandbox feel of it
 
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Sam McClendon
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I think I might have to try this out as well. I really do like the look of the cards, Robin. And I do like the idea of the deck.
 
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