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Subject: Can you use Advanced Sensors if IONed? rss

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Chris Brown
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The question is in the title...

Had this happen twice at the store championship this weekend. Playing against Bloody Daggers, I IONed one of his B-Wings so he flew right past the battle and took a good while to get back into it. It didn't really matter if Advances Sensors was allowed. The next game I IONed a shuttle that had an engine upgrade. This was much different as being able to boost would have given him much better position.

Our ruling was that since you do not "reveal a maneuver" you cannot do Advanced Sensors. I could see it going either way.

Card text...
Advanced Sensors
"Immediately before you reveal your maneuver, you may perform 1 free action. If you use this ability you must skip your "Perform Action" step during this round."

ION Reference Card
"Planning Phase: The owner does not assign a maneuver dial to this ship.
Activation Phase: The owner moves the ship as if it were assigned a white [1 forward] maneuver. After executing this maneuver, remove all ion tokens from the ship. It may perform actions as normal."
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Mike Mitchell
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Sadly no. You're not revealing a maneuver. You're stuck doing the 1 forward.
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Jesse Catron
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Cormitt wrote:
Sadly no. You're not revealing a maneuver. You're stuck doing the 1 forward.


Not sadly but gladly. Advanced Sensors are powerful enough!
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Mike Mitchell
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drktron wrote:
Cormitt wrote:
Sadly no. You're not revealing a maneuver. You're stuck doing the 1 forward.


Not sadly but gladly. Advanced Sensors are powerful enough!


I was speaking as the victim here...
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Pasi Ojala
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killerardvark wrote:
Our ruling was that since you do not "reveal a maneuver" you cannot do Advanced Sensors.

I think this was exactly the ruling by FFG in their Rules forum (but I could remember wrong). At least there is a long thread about it either there or maybe here.

The gist of it was that none of the things that refer to your dial work when Ioned.
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Ed Raz
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drktron wrote:
Cormitt wrote:
Sadly no. You're not revealing a maneuver. You're stuck doing the 1 forward.


Not sadly but gladly. Advanced Sensors are powerful enough!


Plus it's thematic, your systems get shut down temporarily.
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Creed Buhallin
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From the FAQ:
Quote:
Q: If a ship does not have a dial assigned to it when it activates during the Activation phase, can it resolve any effects that refer to its maneuver dial?
A: No. For example, a HWK-290 with an ion token cannot use the effect of Navigator to change the speed of its maneuver.

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Chris Brown
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I completely agree with the judgement (both thematically and game mechanics-ly), but I think the argument was that it didn't really refer to the movement dial because it says "before" revealing it. If something is never going to happen, can something else be before it.

Irrelevant Example: If my wife asks me to do the dishes before I go to the store, can I avoid doing the dishes by just not going to the store?
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Creed Buhallin
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killerardvark wrote:
I completely agree with the judgement (both thematically and game mechanics-ly), but I think the argument was that it didn't really refer to the movement dial because it says "before" revealing it. If something is never going to happen, can something else be before it.

Irrelevant Example: If my wife asks me to do the dishes before I go to the store, can I avoid doing the dishes by just not going to the store?

I'm curious how you can be "before revealing the dial" without referring to the dial. Can you perhaps lay that one out?

Your example is focusing on the wrong thing (though it is funny). The difference is not whether or not you refer to the store, but whether or not what you've been asked to do is actually dependent on the hook of revealing the dial/going to the store. In the game structure, it is. I doubt your wife would see the same dependency
 
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Chris Brown
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Buhallin wrote:
I'm curious how you can be "before revealing the dial" without referring to the dial. Can you perhaps lay that one out?

I find it difficult to argue for a point I did not agree with. Your comment is exactly the way I took it.
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Dok Indigo
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killerardvark wrote:
If something is never going to happen, can something else be before it.

Yes, of course. If something is never going to happen, then everything else is going to happen before it.

But the wording on Advanced sensors is "Immediately before you reveal your maneuver, you may perform 1 free action."

"Immediately before" means to my understanding that nothing is between the two things happening. Since you do not reveal a maneuver you are never "immediately" before revealing it, so advanced sensors don't work.
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Claudius Stute
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killerardvark wrote:
Irrelevant Example: If my wife asks me to do the dishes before I go to the store, can I avoid doing the dishes by just not going to the store?


No, unless you want to sleep on the couch...
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Kernel Klink
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On behalf of and at the request of our X-Wing League and tournament players, I submitted some rules questions to FFG. Here are the related responses to our questions, directly quoted from Frank Brooks and formatted for easy reading: (please don't hate if some of these questions seem stupid - I am only the messenger. I just thought it would be an interesting read on this thread)

In response to your questions:

Rule Question:
If my ship is equipped with Advanced Sensors and is ionized from the previous turn, am I able to take the free action using Advanced Sensors before executing the move caused by ionization (the white, speed 1 straight maneuver)?

Answer:
No. Since a ship that is ionized does not choose a maneuver and therefore does not "reveal its dial" it cannot use Advanced Sensors to perform actions before executing its white 1 straight maneuver.


Rule Question:
Nothing in the rules indicates that ionizing interferes with taking actions ... May Lando give an ionized ship a free action before that ship executes its one speed straight maneuver?

Answer:
Yes, an ionized ship can still perform free actions, nothing is preventing that (unless it is also stressed).

Question:
To further clarify the Advanced Sensors text...since there is no mention of the word "dial" on the Advanced Sensors card, should the wording on the card be considered to read "dial" rather than "maneuver?"

Answer:
Not necessarily, the rulebook uses dial and maneuver somewhat interchangeably when discussing "choosing your maneuver."

Question:
If an opponent's Intelligence Agent is invoked to see your dial, is that considered a "reveal" for the purpose of Advanced Sensors?

Answer:
(No) In a similar sense, "look at" and "reveal" are seperate terms. Intelligence Agent lets you "look at that ship’s chosen maneuver," which is different than "revealing your dial." I can see where the confusion arises though, lots of little subtleties.

Hope that helps!

Frank Brooks
Associate Creative Content Developer
Fantasy Flight Games
fbrooks@fantasyflightgames.com


Thanks for playing!
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