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Legendary: Paint the Town Red» Forums » Reviews

Subject: Review and Constructive Feedback rss

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Dan R
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I did this for the Fantastic 4 expansion as well and thought I would continue the tradition. Feel free to provide any additional constructive feedback for the UDE team here .

Got my copy on Friday. So far I've played 3 single player games 2 2-player games and 3 40player games with the new cards. My initial reaction is overwhelmingly positive. I said that the F4 expansion was great but not as superb as Dark City. This mini-expansion in my mind was just as fun as the Dark City expansion (although obviously smaller1).

First off, thanks a lot to upper deck for putting this expansion out. There was a lot of flak about a minor delay and I think the product we got was well worth the wait!

I thought I'd list some of the things I liked and disliked in the expansion as feedback for upper deck, feel free to add your opinions as well. Overall I really like the diversity this expansion brings to the LEGENDARY system when randomizing games. Once I've gotten a few more games in I'll add to this thread with reviews on individual heroes and villain groups, but for now read my comments on the pack as a whole.


Comments on the overall pack
The Great:
Size: I really liked the small size of the expansion. Only 100 adds enough heroes and villains to keep the game exciting while not adding too many to overwhelm us. I said this with the last expansion as well, it doesn't overwhelm us with cost, but keeps us excited for more. I think the current distribution plan (1 big box and 2 small boxes) is great. Its really allowed me to enjoy other games while still playing LEGENDARY regularly.

New Villain groups: Both new villain groups are really fun to play against. Not impossibly hard but still providing some level of thinking.

Related mechanics: I love the foil presented in the new hero and villain mechanics. Wall-crawl allows you to place a card your just recruited with the ability on top of your deck. Feast KO's the top card of your deck. When playing we had exciting moments where Carnage feasted on 3 wounds and a shield officer and sad ones where he feasted on 4 moon knights (was a bad day). Top of deck manipulation is not new to this game (see one of the 2-cost gambit cards) but it is exciting. Feast gives us a danger for manipulating your deck. I think Wall Crawl is a great ability that can easily be used on heroes in the future (sparingly... to not be overpowered). Feast is another thing...

The Good:
Artwork: I really enjoyed the artwork here. Especially the Moon Knight, Scarlet Spider, and Villain artwork. The artwork on female cards has been discussed to death and everyone has different opinions. Overall the artwork was a plus. I think a method could be adapted to use multiple artists on the same set (or hero), see the Fantasy Flight Games LCG models. They have 100's of artists make a set of cards but the set still feels really cohesive. A more varied art source may lead to some really cool things in the future of LEGENDARY.

Hero Design: The heroes seem designed and balanced really well. 4 of the heroes get a 1 or 2 cost hero to compliment a Spider-man built deck. Spider-womans two cards work great with some deck manipulation (knowing whats on top of your deck), but they can be totally destroyed by a feast so there is some fun danger there. Much like the Fantastic Four characters these heroes have a lot of synergy with each other and the schemes / villains released in this set. When mixed into the larger bag of heroes they feel very balanced. Dark City introduced a lot of powerful heroes that were almost too good to be true. This hero balance is key going forward to having a long-lasting enjoyable deck builder. The lack of power creep is a major positive!

The Meh:
Lack of Henchmen: We desperately need more henchmen groups. Especially when one of the schemes has you shuffle some henchmen in the hero deck. Some spider-man foe henchmen would have been great I can only handle so many Maggia goons.

Spider-woman's Affiliation: This has been discussed a lot as well. Spider-woman is not really a spider-friend character, a SHIELD or Avengers affiliation would have been more appropriate. To see Spider-woman categorized incorrectly but Moon Knight correctly placed makes comic book nerds scratch their heads, not a big deal but would have been a nice nod.

The Not So Good:
Lack of Old Keywords: One of the things I was afraid of in the Fantastic Four expansion was the lack of keywords being used again. As of now, Teleport was introduced in Dark City, (not used again), Focus was introduced in Fantastic 4, (not used again). It would have been nice to see some of these abilities used when appropriate, A Spider-man that had Focus 1 to manipulate the top of your deck could have been great! I have high hopes that this summers big box expansion will continue to use these keywords but I don't want it to end up like a CCG with 1-2 keywords per expansion that are forgotten about in the next expansion. I think FEAST has been set up for such a problem. Much like Burrow it is not an easily useable keyword in the future. There are a few villains here and there that can use this keyword but it may have been easier to just leave it as a fight ability.


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Charles Hasegawa
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Yeah, I don't understand all the affiliations. It would be nice if some of the characters had cross-affiliation. I understand how "Spider"woman fits the Spider themed expansion, but truly, she is an Avenger.

The Thing was another that should have had cross affiliation. And I think I'd have rather had a FF Spiderman or a "Superior" Spiderman to the Symbiote one.

Maybe they are saving some of the "newer" guys for a bigger expansion, but the last two small box ones felt a little retro
 
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Darth Ed
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I completely agree with your criticisms regarding the lack of henchmen (we desperately need more) and the keyword amnesia that seems to affect each expansion. Old keywords need to be reused rather than forgotten. I like your suggestion that Spider-Man should have had at least one Focus ability to manipulate or reveal the top card of the deck. Burrow and Feast seem so villain-specific that I have a hard time foreseeing them being reused. New keywords should only be introduced if they will be reused.

Spider-Woman's affiliation doesn't bother me too much, but I agree in principle. I understand why they did it, I guess. I would like to see heroes with multiple affiliations, however. If they ever get around to releasing Beast, he better be affiliated with both the X-Men and the Avengers.

The cards were shrink-wrapped in this expansion. That's new, right? I remember having a disagreement with Jacovis (I think) on whether the cards should be shrink-wrapped or not. I'm pleased that the shrink-wrapping was very loose so that it didn't damage the cards and there was an easy-to-use pull tab to remove the shrink-wrapping. Nice touches there.

I agree with your assessment of the small box expansion, vis-à-vis big box expansions. I'd love to see even more small box expansions per year.

Regarding the artwork, leaving aside my previous complaint about Black Cat, the only artwork I didn't like in this set was the Sandman card and the Vulture card. Both are too cartoony for my tastes. The rest of the set is superb and better than the Fantastic Four expansion's art, overall, and better than a good chunk of the Dark City artwork.
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Atnier Rodriguez
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What was your complaint about Black Cat?
 
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Darth Ed
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okami31 wrote:
What was your complaint about Black Cat?

Oh, gosh, you missed those threads? It started small enough, but it kind of snowballed out of my control. Let's not start that snowball rolling again.
http://boardgamegeek.com/article/14654133#14654133
http://boardgamegeek.com/article/14655913#14655913
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Atnier Rodriguez
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DarthEd wrote:
okami31 wrote:
What was your complaint about Black Cat?

Oh, gosh, you missed those threads? It started small enough, but it kind of snowballed out of my control. Let's not start that snowball rolling again.
http://boardgamegeek.com/article/14654133#14654133
http://boardgamegeek.com/article/14655913#14655913


Oh, I'm sorry. I got burned out with the whole custom-cards making and haven't played Legendary since.

I've never cared for FF4, but this latest bunch of cards seem more fun.

I wonder if any one out there that had a bunch of variants and custom-ideas has been able to resign themselves to play the game as is, without trying to make heroes more faithful or bring extra-everything into the mix.

Maybe the incoming dice-building Marvel game will supplant this one as the go-to Marvel experience so I can enjoy it as I initially did.
 
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Mark Bakke
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Just wondering how an idea of putting out 2- or 3-team affiliations on certain cards would be received? Thing would be Fantastic 4 and Avengers, Spiderman would be Spiderman and Fantastic Four and Avengers, Beast would be X-Men and Avengers, etc. Wolverine could have about a half-dozen team affiliations... :-)

 
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Darth Ed
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Bakkster wrote:
Just wondering how an idea of putting out 2- or 3-team affiliations on certain cards would be received? Thing would be Fantastic 4 and Avengers, Spiderman would be Spiderman and Fantastic Four and Avengers, Beast would be X-Men and Avengers, etc. Wolverine could have about a half-dozen team affiliations... :-)

As long as they don't overdo it, I think it would be fine. Frankly, the only character that really demands multiple affiliations in my opinion is Beast. OK, and probably She-Hulk (FF and Avengers). We already have multiple Wolverines (X-Men and X-Force). I don't think we need anymore. While I'm a fan of Bendis' New Avengers, Spider-Man as an Avenger still seems weird to me.
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Darth Ed
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okami31 wrote:
I got burned out with the whole custom-cards making and haven't played Legendary since.

I figured as much since I haven't seen you around these parts.

okami31 wrote:
I wonder if any one out there that had a bunch of variants and custom-ideas has been able to resign themselves to play the game as is, without trying to make heroes more faithful or bring extra-everything into the mix.

While I enjoyed the mental activity of designing custom cards, I rarely played games with them, honestly, mostly because I was never happy with the graphics. I do still really like the Hank Pym and the Wasp designs that were mostly your ideas. I think they still hold their own. Anyway, I mostly play with official cards.

okami31 wrote:
Maybe the incoming dice-building Marvel game will supplant this one as the go-to Marvel experience so I can enjoy it as I initially did.

I just don't see the attraction of that game beyond the theme, but then I find rolling dice to be kind of boring.
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Niccolo Machiavelli
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I think having another version of the character with a different affiliation would work out fine. They have already done it with Wolverine and honestly I like both versions of his card.

They could easily have a "New" Fantastic Four version of Spider-man, The Hulk (Grey / Mr. Fixit), Ghost Rider (Danny Ketch), and Wolverine (A 3rd wolverine card, too much?).

Regardless of whether they do the New Fantastic four, I suspect we will at one point see more versions of Hulk / Gamma radiated beings (Red Hulk, Grey Hulk, She-Hulk, Doc Samson, Skaar, etc), as well as more versions of other characters.

Personally I'd love to see re-vamped versions of the original Masterminds (Doom should be tougher), though I know some of the community worked on that as well.

I agree that Teleport, Wall-crawl, and focus can't be abandoned from one set to the next and hopefully the big box will address that. Teleport could be tricky, but I can think of a few minor characters who have it who haven't yet been included who have teleport like abilities: Solo and Darkhawk.
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Paul H
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Machiavellian wrote:
...Wolverine (A 3rd wolverine card, too much?).


Keep in mind we now have 3 Spider-Mans (Spider-men?).
 
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Dane Turner
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Rraahk wrote:
Machiavellian wrote:
...Wolverine (A 3rd wolverine card, too much?).


Keep in mind we now have 3 Spider-Mans (Spider-men?).


I only count two. "Spider-Man" and "Symbiote Spider-Man." Who's the third?
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Atnier Rodriguez
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Danishdonut wrote:
Rraahk wrote:
Machiavellian wrote:
...Wolverine (A 3rd wolverine card, too much?).


Keep in mind we now have 3 Spider-Mans (Spider-men?).


I only count two. "Spider-Man" and "Symbiote Spider-Man." Who's the third?


He probably meant Scarlet Spider.
 
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Dan R
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DarthEd wrote:

While I enjoyed the mental activity of designing custom cards, I rarely played games with them, honestly, mostly because I was never happy with the graphics. I do still really like the Hank Pym and the Wasp designs that were mostly your ideas. I think they still hold their own. Anyway, I mostly play with official cards.


My wife really enjoys playing Legendary with me but knows little to nothing about the Marvel universe (outside of the movies) for our anniversary last year I designed a Harry Potter core set of 15 heroes, 5 villain groups, 3 henchmen groups, 3 masterminds, 4 schemes and new bystander/agent/wound cards etc.

It was my first shot at designing them, my Photoshop skills were pretty much non-existant but I found enough good art around the inter webs to make them fun. In the end I may have underpowered out heroes and overpowered the villains but it makes the game quite a challenge. I'll have to find all the digital files and upload them as a pdf on the site sometime if anyone else wants to struggle with them.


DarthEd wrote:

I just don't see the attraction of that game beyond the theme, but then I find rolling dice to be kind of boring.


I used to think this but my little brother has quarriors and the base game is a really fun game to play with gamers of all experience levels. I was going to try the new marvel dice builder until I saw it was expanded by purchasing random boosters. That lost my money.
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