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Subject: Core Pre-Constructed. Noise vs HB. rss

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Blorb Plorbst
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My friend recently got the core set and we started off with Noise vs HB. I was playing HB. We got some rules wrong on the first couple plays but kept playing the same sets and while the next game was close, Noise won.

Wanting to see if I could do better with the same faction, we play again. Close but, Noise won.

Again: Not close, Noise won.

Again: Close but Noise won.

I assume (sometimes incorrectly), that factions are pretty balanced in a published game. Is it possible that Noise vs HB is just a mismatch?

I felt like I was getting very bad draws. I'd have a hand full of agendas and poor defenses or good defense and would have to start fishing for agendas. And then I'd draw and complete the Agenda (Accelerated Beta Test) that lets you look at the top 3 cards of R&D and I'd pull 2 or 3 Agendas - into archives and the runner just wanders into victory.

Or I get an agenda and put it into a well defended (3 ice) server with the credits to back it up and the runner plays a stimhack and runs right through it.

Anyway, is it a bad matchup? Am I getting unlucky? I've got experience with CCGs. I think I might have over defended my core servers in my second game (since I got beaten quickly with attacks against my R&D in the game prior). But beyond that I can't say that I made any major oversights. And I know that my opponent made some sub optimal plays so that should balance things out.
 
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Mike Romeo
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I personnaly think playing corp is harder than runner, especially with only core and a few packs. When you play you should play two games playing each side once and counting the total points of both games!!!

Also I think Noise is really strong and anoying in the core set (especially before Jackson Howard). He is strong but also really hard to play agaisnt for beginners!!!

Get more data packs is my advice ;)) Seriously, play each side once in each game, play other runners maybe at first? or learn strategies to counter Noise (look on the net).

A Noise with 2 mediums on the table early on can be a huge pain if you don't know how to handle it.
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Chris Chew
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One thing I learnt in netrunner is that, you don't rez ICE just becos the runner is at the door, you only rez them when you absolutely have to stop the runner from winning or getting too close to match pt.

For e.g.
With no or one agenda in hand with 5 cards, you can keep your ICE unrez as the chance of runner scoring is 0 or 20%

Why do this and not rez ICE? Because Runner wish to tap into more information of the kind of ICE you run to look for the appropriate breaker. Rezing ICE (especially mid to big ICE) impacts greatly on your economy in the early game.

ICE functions as a trap, a deterrent and a misdirection if you keep it hidden. Opening up unnecessarily gives runner a lot of info on how to handle your deck.

Another tip, ICE correctly against different runner. Just core set alone, against noise should ice more in R&D, if you are milled agenda from viruses, ice archive but don't it immediately.... For Gabriel (Criminal), HQ ICE is the top priority, rez mainly against Account Siphon. If you can drop an ICE at archive for surprised Backdoor Beta attacks (MVP ICEs for archive is Rototurret & Ichi 1.0 with runner lack of clicks, to kill off the Backdoor program immediately)

Eventually, with enough time and credits, runner can break all ICE in any server. The best defense in late game is to make each run as expensive as possible, making the runner having to recover for money to make another run.
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Peter Hopkins
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Hi, welcome to the game! I found in my first handful of games, the runner almost always won (often with the corp not scoring ANYTHING!). We got a few little rules here and there wrong, so it's definitely worth checking one of the new player threads as there are a load of little rules that can make a big difference (an example is thinking that all ICE ends a run, or that ICE derezzes after it's used). Also, try switching sides, I think it's harder to win as either side until you've got a basic grasp of how the other plays.

Specifically... Against Noise, you have to be careful as in the core set there are very few ways of returning cards from your archives back to your hand. If Noise can get into Archives ONCE, he can grab ALL agendas hiding in there! His ability will randomly drop cards into your archives, and there's a good chance this will include precious agendas. Keep this in mind from the beginning of the game, and be ready to defend with ICE before agendas end up in there.

This is doubly important if you intend to fire off Accelerated Beta Test (which is the agenda that looks at the top of R&D). I use that card (sometimes) very successfully in a particular deck that is built with LOTS of ICE and several ways to retrieve agendas that end up there. Remember, you DON'T HAVE TO USE THE ABILITY. In fact, if you don't have any ICE on archives I wouldn't recommend it, as you can easily wind up handing 3+ agenda points to the runner on a silver plate!
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Blorb Plorbst
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Thanks all. I did choose not rez ice a couple times - usually because there wasn't much at risk and I wanted to save my credits for other things.

And I finally stopped using the Accelerated Beta Test ability because it just bit me too many times. A single piece of ice on Archives does very little to stop a run and putting more there when I've got a weakly defended remote server doesn't make sense. Though if I held the operation that let me retrieve a card from the Archives, I felt a little safer using the effect.

Yes, Medium was very deadly which led me to throwing a bunch of ice on R&D and then he wouldn't run it and I was struggling to get ice on other servers.

I think what I need to work on is not over-committing my defenses until I know where a threat is or I feel comfortable with what's in my hand to respond well to rising threats.

As for getting more datapacks, we'll have to decide if the investment is worthwhile enough. I was hoping to get some good play time out of the Core set before considering further investment.
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Captain Frisk
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Also - Accelerated Beta test is not a mandatory effect. You don't have to use it... and honestly with core sets only, you probably shouldn't unless you:

1. Have an extra click to archive memories an agenda it back into your hand
2. Are really low on ice (but then it was probably hard to score the agenda in the first place)
3. Are in desperation time
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Mike Romeo
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Yeah, just use beta test if you desperaily need it or if you feel the odds are really in your favor (not much agendas left, or a lot of ice still in your deck). This agenda is made to be used by deck specifically tweaked to do so.


Agaisnt Noise with HB, I would ice R&D a lot a the beginning of the game (1 or 2 nice piece of ice), wouldn't ice my hand unless I get two or more agendas in it, and get a big server up. Now a common mistake for beginners with HB is tend to think their server is safe because of one or two big Bioroid ice in front of it, but for a 2 or 3 points agenda, clicking through a big bioroid with 2 or 3 clicks is pretty cheap.

Now, Bioroid ice are still good at protecting remote, but don't feel overconfident with them!!! Where they really shine is in front of R&D, where clicking throught with 2-3 clicks just to see a card with less than 25% of hitting an Agenda and a medium counter is not really worth it. Then running R&D, eitheir cost him his whole turn, or so much money, that he will need to spend his next turn recovering from it.
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Peter Hopkins
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I can't recommend enough switching sides! Honestly, until you know how the runner plays, you'll find knowing where and when they can run pretty difficult. Ideally, you want to wait for a window where you know the runner can't afford to get in, then lay down your agenda ready to score it. They may play Stimhack at this point to mess with your plans, and that is of course annoying!

Once you get the feel for the tempo of the game, you can start laying down traps or expensive assets in a remote server when you think your opponent might run on them to waste their resources (some players fall for this more than others...).

With cards like medium, remember you can use your Corp ability to wipe virus counters! Even after a few months of playing, I often forget you can do this.

You don't have to ICE up every single remote either... Often, a PAD Campaign isn't worth defending as you want to tempt the runner into attacking it... if they do, they're out 4 credits, and you've gained one for installing (as HB). If they don't, rez it at the end of their turn and start making money!

EDIT: And don't worry too much about buying datapacks just yet. You can play all of the matchups both ways before you even need to consider that, that's 24 games, then you can start to deckbuild using just the core set cards. You may decide to delve into the datapacks before then (as I did), you may want to hold back until you've exhausted the core set!
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Mike Bialecki
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unitled wrote:

EDIT: And don't worry too much about buying datapacks just yet. You can play all of the matchups both ways before you even need to consider that, that's 24 games, then you can start to deckbuild using just the core set cards. You may decide to delve into the datapacks before then (as I did), you may want to hold back until you've exhausted the core set!


This.

New cards are not going to make you a better player. Playing the game is going to make you a better player. Keep your card-pool low by sticking to the core set. Get to know all the cards. Keep checking to make sure you are playing by the correct rules (don't forget to buff Wyrm to match original strength of ICE before using it to reduce strength of ICE). And keep switching sides. There is a very steep learning curve to this game. Things will click and your games will begin to even out. Then go buy yourself some nice new shiny cards.
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Mike Bialecki
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I may not have read the replies well enough, but did anybody mention anything about Purging Viruses? It's painful, but don't forget that it's always an option for the Corporation. You can spend 3 clicks to clear *ALL* of the runner's virus tokens. With one big wave of your hand, all the virus tokens on all Datasuckers, Mediums, and even Crypsis are gone. That could really hurt the runner.
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Peter Hopkins
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mbialeck wrote:
I may not have read the replies well enough, but did anybody mention anything about Purging Viruses? It's painful, but don't forget that it's always an option for the Corporation. You can spend 3 clicks to clear *ALL* of the runner's virus tokens. With one big wave of your hand, all the virus tokens on all Datasuckers, Mediums, and even Crypsis are gone. That could really hurt the runner.


I mentioned this, but it's definitely worth repeating. I don't think people do this often enough... you can be sitting opposite a massive pile of datasucker tokens and completely forget it's an option. At least, I know *I* forget I can do it!
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Blorb Plorbst
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mbialeck wrote:
I may not have read the replies well enough, but did anybody mention anything about Purging Viruses? It's painful, but don't forget that it's always an option for the Corporation. You can spend 3 clicks to clear *ALL* of the runner's virus tokens. With one big wave of your hand, all the virus tokens on all Datasuckers, Mediums, and even Crypsis are gone. That could really hurt the runner.


I did overlook this. I thought it would only applied to viruses on my side like Parasite and not all counters on the table.
 
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Blorb Plorbst
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KingAnus3 wrote:

Now, Bioroid ice are still good at protecting remote, but don't feel overconfident with them!!! Where they really shine is in front of R&D, where clicking throught with 2-3 clicks just to see a card with less than 25% of hitting an Agenda and a medium counter is not really worth it.


That's a good observation. I was mostly happy just to have ice to play but there were definitely times when I might have made better choices about where to play it.
 
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Gregory Pettigrew
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CrankyPants wrote:
mbialeck wrote:
I may not have read the replies well enough, but did anybody mention anything about Purging Viruses? It's painful, but don't forget that it's always an option for the Corporation. You can spend 3 clicks to clear *ALL* of the runner's virus tokens. With one big wave of your hand, all the virus tokens on all Datasuckers, Mediums, and even Crypsis are gone. That could really hurt the runner.


I did overlook this. I thought it would only applied to viruses on my side like Parasite and not all counters on the table.


A matter of perception. There are no viruses on your side. They are all under the Runner's control and Parasites still count against the Runner's MU (and can't be Hosted on Djinn).
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Mike Cooper
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Noise vs HB is fairly even in the base set. I think with best play Noise may have a slight advantage.

The weak corps in the base set are NBN and especially Jinteki. I struggle to beat a beginner with any of the runners with Jinteki. HB and Weyland are fine.

Generally beginners often think the game is severely in favour of one side or another, but it's usually a result of getting an important rule wrong (e.g. not realising ice stays rezzed once you rez it) or weak play, e.g. the runner always waits for a complete rig before making a run or the corp tries to defend every asset.
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Mychal
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CrankyPants wrote:
mbialeck wrote:
I may not have read the replies well enough, but did anybody mention anything about Purging Viruses? It's painful, but don't forget that it's always an option for the Corporation. You can spend 3 clicks to clear *ALL* of the runner's virus tokens. With one big wave of your hand, all the virus tokens on all Datasuckers, Mediums, and even Crypsis are gone. That could really hurt the runner.


I did overlook this. I thought it would only applied to viruses on my side like Parasite and not all counters on the table.

Whoa. Facing core set Noise without virus purging... that's a huge part of your problem right there.
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