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Subject: Traps and leaving the realm tile rss

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Mike Miller

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Had this come up last night in the starter quest -
We left the first Realm Tile before finishing disarming the trap (Darkness Falls) - the range on the trap is Tile, so does that mean we no longer have to test for it, and that when the Darkness AP hits 6, nothing happens?

Also, can you leave a tile that still has enemies on it? Seemed like a good idea to leave a turn earlier with one of the crawlers left on it rather than take the permanent hit to our Darkness track.

UPDATE:

For those not interested in digging through this thread for the answers that came about due to this and subsequent questions:

Generic official answer:
If the heroes leave choose to leave a tile that still contains enemies (lairs, hunting packs etc) would the tile still be removed from play once all heroes have moved off it?
No, the tile would remain, hunting packs would follow and attack heroes and the lair would continue to spawn during the darkness cycle.

Specific official answer:
For Darkness Falls; if you can manage to escape and the AP reaches 6 the trap disarms itself without any dire consequences or rewards.

LAST UPDATE:

This is pretty much the flow of the trap as we understand it at this point, with feedback from Brian, compiled by LordCyler and myself:

______________________________________________

Darkness Falls

1. At the start of the Hero Cycle roll 1 Fate Die per Hero on the tile.
2. If any Fate Die symbol matches any Hero on the tile, that Hero is affected and may attempt a single Disarm check. If no Fate Die symbols match any of the Heroes on the tile, no Disarm checks can be attempted this Hero Cycle.
3. If the affected Hero does not attempt a Disarm check, that Hero will receive 1 damage and increase the Darkness AP by 1.
4. To attempt a Disarm check against the hidden trap the affected Hero must discard a card from their hand and proceed to take a Non-Combat Action to Disarm. The dice pool will include 1D10 plus any modifiers (Equipment or Non-Combat Action cards played).
5. If the Disarm check results in 7+, the Disarm check is successful. Place one Rune token under the avatar. If the Disarm check results in less than 7, the check fails and the affected Hero will take 1 damage and increase the AP track by 1 on the Darkness board.
6. Repeat this process for all affected Heroes.

Conclusion
1. The Darkness Falls trap is completed when either the Heroes have earned 3 Rune tokens (success) or the Darkness AP track reaches 6 (fail).
2. If the Heroes earn 3 Rune tokens thus successfully disarming the trap, receive 3 Serendipity as a reward.
3. If the AP track reaches 6 while the heroes are on the tile, the Heroes have failed to Disarm the trap and the Darkness AP track is reduced to 5 for the remainder of the Act and no reward is given.

Special Note
When the Darkness AP track reaches 6, if all Heroes have left the tile, the trap will disarm itself. The Darkness AP track will remain unmodified, and no reward is gained.
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Endevor Rovedne
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You can leave a tile with monsters on it they will follow you.

Escape is not a method to disarm the Darkness Falls trap, you must be on the Tile to disarm it but it you flee you will suffer the consequences.
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Michael Cozzolino
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You also don't get to reset AP and threat if you don't clear the tile.
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Mike Miller

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Endevor wrote:
Escape is not a method to disarm the Darkness Falls trap, you must be on the Tile to disarm it but it you flee you will suffer the consequences.


Yes, but its range is 'Realm Tile', so doesn't that mean we are out of range at that point?
 
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Endevor Rovedne
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I really don't think, too easy.
 
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Richard Ham
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Endevor wrote:
You can leave a tile with monsters on it they will follow you.


Really? Rules say when you leave a tile, it's removed from the game, so they can't follow you, surely?

TBH, I had assumed that you had to completely clear a tile before you could leave... complete the quest, and kill all present monsters. Only thing that could still be active were some traps.

Apparently I was wrong though. Still, you're saying that a tile won't be removed from the game until all Heroes and all monsters have left it? Does that mean if monsters are still on a previous tile that players can re-enter that tile?
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Mike Miller

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Endevor wrote:
I really don't think, too easy.


I'm not concerned about the difficulty of the strategy, I'm concerned whether it is okay to do by the rules. RAW, I think I'm in the clear, but an official response would be helpful.

The trap is really next to impossible with two players, so I think the only way to beat it is to avoid it. You don't get the serendipity reward, but avoiding the penalty is pretty key, and the only realistic way to do that with 2 players is to run away.
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Endevor Rovedne
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You can even open 2 new tiles at the same time if you are crazy enough (it is written in the book if i remember correctly).
We talked about the "when the last hero leave the tile you can remove it" if it has been cleared of course, there is no way this can be used as a method to get rid of monster or lairs, it would be too easy.

Yes you can go back, the remove the tile rule is just to keep the space on your table small.
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Remi Bureau
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The following is my opinion, I have found no rules explicitly allowing it or preventing it :

I think you can leave the tile you're on in any direction (except the one you came from) at any time, even if the tile isn't cleared. But, if you do so, activated enemies still on the tile would follow you and you can't remove the tile from play as long as a monster or lair is still on it.
Lairs would keep spawning, traps affecting tile only would not affect you anymore (you're out of reach).


Edit : @Mike, if you're talking about Darkness Falls, it's definitely one way to do it, but as mentionned in the other thread, the trap is less effective against 2 heroes (roll 2 dice and only 2 symbols can hurt you, instead of 4-5 dice with 4-5 symbols hurting heroes)
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Endevor Rovedne
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pinkymadigan wrote:
Endevor wrote:
I really don't think, too easy.


I'm not concerned about the difficulty of the strategy, I'm concerned whether it is okay to do by the rules. RAW, I think I'm in the clear, but an official response would be helpful.

The trap is really next to impossible with two players, so I think the only way to beat it is to avoid it. You don't get the serendipity reward, but avoiding the penalty is pretty key, and the only realistic way to do that with 2 players is to run away.


I don't think it is really really more difficult with 2 players than with 4, it gives you more chances to draw one of your card to help non combat action but nothing more. But you have to accept 1 or maybe 2 turns of loitering.

Of course if you are doing this trap on a Tile with many types of monster or agents the end of the first turn will be painfull yes but i don't think being 4 will change anything.

To be honest i prefer RAI than RAW
 
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Jeremy Steward
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Yah, I am thinking that avoiding the darkness falls trap by leaving the tile is legit, although imo it feels like cheating. But, like he said you dont get the reward.

There is nothing that says you have to clear a tile before leaving, but you generally want to because lairs keep spawning and monsters will follow you, you will also start the next tile with higher threat, and you miss out on any rewards for clearing the tile (the extra gold & merchant).
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Endevor wrote:
We talked about the "when the last hero leave the tile you can remove it" if it has been cleared of course, there is no way this can be used as a method to get rid of monster or lairs, it would be too easy.

Yes you can go back, the remove the tile rule is just to keep the space on your table small.


Deadwolf wrote:
There is nothing that says you have to clear a tile before leaving


Are you really sure about this? The rules very specifically state: "As Heroes leave tiles, they are removed." and there are multiple references about how the tile must be "cleared" before players get their rewards (merchants, money, serendipity, etc.).

Are you saying instead that when I'm on a tile, I can leave, creating a different tile, with a different active quest, and I leave the old tile on the table with the old quest/trap/monsters? Can I do it again, and have 3 or 4 tiles on the table at once, all with monsters still scurrying around and different things going on? Can my allies from one tile follow me to the next?

This seems like a huge can of worms...
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Mike Miller

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Endevor wrote:
To be honest i prefer RAI than RAW


RAI is fine if the designer weighs in with the intent. I'm not going to guess the intent at this point, though.

Just because it's less damaging doesn't mean there is a good way of solving the trap before 6 AP. Especially since it raises AP on its own. We were hardly concerned about the damage aspect, we just wanted to be able to disarm it or flee the effects. In doing so, we gave up the right to the reward, so I don't think it's "too easy", I think we weighed the options and decided there was no way to nab the 3 serendipity without sacrificing a lot of time, potentially health, and an entire space on the darkness meter.
 
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Endevor Rovedne
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rahdo wrote:

Are you saying instead that when I'm on a tile, I can leave, creating a different tile, with a different active quest, and I leave the old tile on the table with the old quest/trap/monsters? Can I do it again, and have 3 or 4 tiles on the table at once, all with monsters still scurrying around and different things going on? Can my allies from one tile follow me to the next?

This seems like a huge can of worms...


Top of page 8
Quote:
Heroes have freedom in how they approach each Act in Myth. This begins with Realm Tile placement. They can choose to leave Realm Tiles from any
of the three edges they didn’t enter from. They can even split the company and leave in two separate directions.


So you can open 2 new tiles and have 2 quests during the same time.
For the leaving tile erase everything i am not sure my version is official, but i won't allow the group to get out of a tile if the chapter quest we are doing is going bad just to avoid the dire consequence of this quest's failure, it really make no sense to me.

I really think you can do what you are suggesting rahdo have 4 different tiles behind you but it will be suicide (unless every monster are part of the same type you will add massive amount of AP at the end of a turn).

I will check in my mail archive to see if i talked about that with Brian or not. Brian if you come here can you clarify this?

"if everybody leave a tile does this make everything in the previous tile disappear (traps, monsters, lairs, quests etc).
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Mike Miller

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Endevor wrote:
Brian if you come here can you clarify this?

"if everybody leave a tile does this make everything in the previous tile disappear (traps, monsters, lairs, quests etc).


And also, maybe the question the thread is about, too?
 
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Endevor Rovedne
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My comments about the 2 directions you are allowed to open means, if you take too litterally the rule "when the last hero leave the tile, remove it" that mean you create 2 separate groupe who may never be able to regroup.
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Tony Pecorelli
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The Chapter Quest "A Desperate Act" has a loss condition if you leave. So for that one you do have the choice of staying and sticking out the 3 waves to see if you can save the camp, or you can leave. So for that quest, would all 3 waves spawn and then follow the heroes? That seems unlikely so it must be that the tile goes away.

Maybe if there is a lair the tile stays?
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Mike Miller

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I'm almost sure the intent here was 'if you are done on a tile, and aren't going to use it again, clean it up'. That was one of the things about Myth's many predecessors with dynamic dungeons that was always annoying. Warhammer Quest, for instance, often times required keeping a log of tiles you've removed from the play surface in case you needed to backtrack. Highly annoying. I think the intent was simplicity for smaller tables, but with the flexibility of leaving stuff out if you needed to.

That's just based on playing lots of dungeon crawlers, and watching the evolution of modular dungeons. I could be wrong, but I think this was really a 'do this if it is easier' kinda rule.
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Mike Miller

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hatchhermit wrote:
The Chapter Quest "A Desperate Act" has a loss condition if you leave. So for that one you do have the choice of staying and sticking out the 3 waves to see if you can save the camp, or you can leave. So for that quest, would all 3 waves spawn and then follow the heroes? That seems unlikely so it must be that the tile goes away.


Interesting point. It could be that since the quest itself is lost, the spawns just stop.
 
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Remi Bureau
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Endevor wrote:

But i won't allow the group to get out of a tile if the chapter quest we are doing is going bad just to avoid the dire consequence of this quest's failure, it really make no sense to me.


Leaving the tile wouldn't nullify the chapter quest.

If you had to save Lucy in 5 HC, and after 3 you realise you won't make it in time. If you leave the tile, you'll still fail at the quest, even if you're not on the tile anymore.
 
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pinkymadigan wrote:
I'm almost sure the intent here was 'if you are done on a tile, and aren't going to use it again, clean it up'. That was one of the things about Myth's many predecessors with dynamic dungeons that was always annoying. Warhammer Quest, for instance, often times required keeping a log of tiles you've removed from the play surface in case you needed to backtrack. Highly annoying. I think the intent was simplicity for smaller tables, but with the flexibility of leaving stuff out if you needed to.

That's just based on playing lots of dungeon crawlers, and watching the evolution of modular dungeons. I could be wrong, but I think this was really a 'do this if it is easier' kinda rule.


I really agree with you, it is a practical rule nothing more.
I made a mail to Brian with 4 questions (trap + clear + 2 more).
I will write the official answer here.
 
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hatchhermit wrote:
The Chapter Quest "A Desperate Act" has a loss condition if you leave. So for that one you do have the choice of staying and sticking out the 3 waves to see if you can save the camp, or you can leave. So for that quest, would all 3 waves spawn and then follow the heroes? That seems unlikely so it must be that the tile goes away.

Maybe if there is a lair the tile stays?


I think this is a special case letting you leave if the challenge is too strong (it is SL after all).
 
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RemiBureau wrote:
Endevor wrote:

But i won't allow the group to get out of a tile if the chapter quest we are doing is going bad just to avoid the dire consequence of this quest's failure, it really make no sense to me.


Leaving the tile wouldn't nullify the chapter quest.

If you had to save Lucy in 5 HC, and after 3 you realise you won't make it in time. If you leave the tile, you'll still fail at the quest, even if you're not on the tile anymore.


But if the chapter quest states that you lose if you leave, surely the quest is already resolved, and doesn't continue to spawn, does it?
 
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Jeremy Steward
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Im pretty sure, the intention about removing a tile is that it assumes that it is empty. Since you can have more than 1 tile active it stands to reason that you can leave a tile before clearing, it is just not removed because it isnt empty

That said, not clearing a tile has consequences. By leaving the trap, you miss out on the trap rewards and rewards for clearing and on a 6x6 thats a big deal. Leaving a chapter quest causes it to fail, and leaving with monsters on the board doesnt really help you.

So, I say go ahead but the game mechanics as is punish you for it.
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Geoff David
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Looking through the Rule Book I found some statements that can help determine some of these questions.


Heroes cannot exit the tile the way they entered unless otherwise stated on the quest card.

This rule keeps you from going back to a previous tile unless your map wraps around to another edge of the tile


Once the tile is clear, or the Heroes move on, the Ally’s job is done.


When talking about Allies the rules say the Heroes can move on without clearing a tile


So the question becomes do you have to kill all the Monsters to move to the next tile.
Normally I would say yes. In Descent you cannot open a door until all monsters are dead.
But in Act 2 of the common People the Setup gives some hints to this question.


edit - Unofficial FAQ says I am wrongThe Hunting Packs never stop following the Heroes.
- this implies they normally do not follow you and per the quest you would leave the tile, monsters would follow and you could not go back. Once the monsters leave the tile, remove it.

To enter Fallen Guard, there cannot be more enemies than Heroes on the last 6 x
6 Realm Tile.
- this implies it usually does not matter how many monsters there are if you want to leave a room.

So I would play that you can leave a tile at any time. You don't get any bonus and the previous tile is removed. I would only do this in an emergency otherwise what fun is that?

Of course about removing the tile the rule says

As Heroes leave tiles, they are removed.
- This statement is an Ambiguous Antecedent so you don't really know if the Tile is removed or the Heroes are removed.
(sorry, couldn't resist and I do understand they mean the tile is removed)
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