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Subject: Big bang - evidence found for inflation rss

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Evidence spotted for universe's early growth spurt
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20140317/DACJGSCG1.html

The new finding could rank with the greatest discoveries about the universe over the last 25 years.
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I've always wondered(I'm no astronomer) if we can only see the light of 13 billion light years away(or 13 billion years ago), if we were closer to the origin or epicenter of the big bang, would we see the light of its beginning?
 
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MWChapel wrote:
I've always wondered(I'm no astronomer) if we can only see the light of 13 billion light years away(or 13 billion years ago), if we were closer to the origin or epicenter of the big bang, would we see the light of its beginning?


Everywhere is equally close to the Big Bang, because it wasn't something that happened in space, it created space.

At least, that's my definitely non-expert understanding.
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MWChapel wrote:
I've always wondered(I'm no astronomer) if we can only see the light of 13 billion light years away(or 13 billion years ago), if we were closer to the origin or epicenter of the big bang, would we see the light of its beginning?

There is no meaningfully definable epicenter. The universe is homogeneous and isotropic on cosmological scales.
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If the universe had gone with the Bit Bang, then there'd be evidence of deflation.
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GameCrossing wrote:
If the universe had gone with the Bit Bang, then there'd be evidence of deflation.


"O'Flumperdick takes the sign from Derpman, and settles back on the mound. There's the windup, and here's the fastball to McSpiffy, a swing AND A MISS! Boy oh boy, they just blew that one by him, Butch. I think the catcher was already throwing it back by the time he decided to swing. Whew. Hope he didn't pull anything."
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djgutierrez77 wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
If the universe had gone with the Bit Bang, then there'd be evidence of deflation.


"O'Flumperdick takes the sign from Derpman, and settles back on the mound. There's the windup, and here's the fastball to McSpiffy, a swing AND A MISS! Boy oh boy, they just blew that one by him, Butch. I think the catcher was already throwing it back by the time he decided to swing. Whew. Hope he didn't pull anything."


Oh, you're wrong sir. This was one of the better cross-thread contributions you'll see. If this was network TV, my crossover post just might have inspired its own spinoff series. Something called "Open Source CryptoUniverse" or something.
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whac3 wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
I've always wondered(I'm no astronomer) if we can only see the light of 13 billion light years away(or 13 billion years ago), if we were closer to the origin or epicenter of the big bang, would we see the light of its beginning?

There is no meaningfully definable epicenter. The universe is homogeneous and isotropic on cosmological scales.

Related question: Does it make sense to ask questions like "what did the universe expand into?" This big bang thing is hard to wrap my head around.
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tesuji wrote:
whac3 wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
I've always wondered(I'm no astronomer) if we can only see the light of 13 billion light years away(or 13 billion years ago), if we were closer to the origin or epicenter of the big bang, would we see the light of its beginning?

There is no meaningfully definable epicenter. The universe is homogeneous and isotropic on cosmological scales.

Related question: Does it make sense to ask questions like "what did the universe expand into?" This big bang thing is hard to wrap my head around.

It doesn't. When the universe expands, as it still does today, more space is created out of literally nothing. Imagine the universe as an infinite potential well because there is nothing outside the universe.

All the particles in the universe exist in bound states within the universe and exert a quantum pressure on the side of that infinite potential well, pushing its sides apart. This lowers the energy of any individual particle by increasing its de Broglie wavelength. Of course total energy is conserved but new particles are excited out of the vacuum in the process.
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MWChapel wrote:
I've always wondered(I'm no astronomer) if we can only see the light of 13 billion light years away(or 13 billion years ago), if we were closer to the origin or epicenter of the big bang, would we see the light of its beginning?


The question isn't where to look, it's how to look. The light from the Big Bang has been stretched through space and time down into the very cool microwave range. Get yourself a microwave telescope and you can 'see' the Big Bang (or at least back to the point where the new universe became transparent to photons). We call this the Cosmic Microwave Background, and it is everywhere.
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tesuji wrote:
Evidence spotted for universe's early growth spurt
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20140317/DACJGSCG1.html

The new finding could rank with the greatest discoveries about the universe over the last 25 years.


It fills me with unutterable sadness that a scientific discovery of this magnitude goes in RSP.
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More about the significance of this from NYT

Confirming inflation would mean that the universe we see, extending 14 billion light-years in space with its hundreds of billions of galaxies, is only an infinitesimal patch in a larger cosmos whose extent, architecture and fate are unknowable. Moreover, beyond our own universe there might be an endless number of other universes bubbling into frothy eternity, like a pot of pasta water boiling over.

In our own universe, it would serve as a window into the forces operating at energies forever beyond the reach of particle accelerators on Earth and yield new insights into gravity itself.


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/18/science/space/detection-of...
 
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aiabx wrote:
tesuji wrote:
Evidence spotted for universe's early growth spurt
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20140317/DACJGSCG1.html

The new finding could rank with the greatest discoveries about the universe over the last 25 years.


It fills me with unutterable sadness that a scientific discovery of this magnitude goes in RSP.

You could put it in Chit-Chat too.

But then it would just devolve into a discussion on whether or not the universe is burrito-shaped.

By putting it in RSP, you not only get a real life physicist chiming in and making you feel dumb for having to look up the word "isotropic," but, eventually, you get a prolonged discussion on whether or not the universe is gay, and if God should be required to bake it a cake.
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whac3 wrote:
It doesn't. When the universe expands, as it still does today, more space is created out of literally nothing. Imagine the universe as an infinite potential well because there is nothing outside the universe.

All the particles in the universe exist in bound states within the universe and exert a quantum pressure on the side of that infinite potential well, pushing its sides apart. This lowers the energy of any individual particle by increasing its de Broglie wavelength. Of course total energy is conserved but new particles are excited out of the vacuum in the process.


My IQ is over 150. I scored a 1540 on my SATs back when that was insanely high. I was a Baker Scholar at Harvard Business School.

These threads with Moshe make me empathize with the doctor from Firely when he explained how smart he was and then said (from memory, so not exact quote), "I'm explaining this so that when I tell you that my sister makes me look like an idiot child you will understand the full extent of my meaning."
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Chad_Ellis wrote:


My IQ is over 150.


Mine too. When I discovered that R.Feyman's was 125, I realised that IQ tests must be bogus.

That or we are both totally loosing our time on BGG instead of developping the warp drive or something.
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Chad_Ellis wrote:
whac3 wrote:
It doesn't. When the universe expands, as it still does today, more space is created out of literally nothing. Imagine the universe as an infinite potential well because there is nothing outside the universe.

All the particles in the universe exist in bound states within the universe and exert a quantum pressure on the side of that infinite potential well, pushing its sides apart. This lowers the energy of any individual particle by increasing its de Broglie wavelength. Of course total energy is conserved but new particles are excited out of the vacuum in the process.


My IQ is over 150. I scored a 1540 on my SATs back when that was insanely high. I was a Baker Scholar at Harvard Business School.

These threads with Moshe make me empathize with the doctor from Firely when he explained how smart he was and then said (from memory, so not exact quote), "I'm explaining this so that when I tell you that my sister makes me look like an idiot child you will understand the full extent of my meaning."

Flattering s this is, the reality is that I have a level of training in two fields (physics/math/its applications and languages/philology) that most people do not. education and training are ultimately democratic. Anyone can with the right materials, instruction and support learn anything. There might be extreme exceptions but in essence the skills and the knowledge are available to all; you just have to learn them. I do physics/math and philology/languages because I think they're cool and using them is fun.

I simply know what I can do and what I know and am not ashamed of it. That said, I don't know everything nor claim to. I've used what I do know to delve into a lot of other stuff but that's it.
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Chad_Ellis wrote:
whac3 wrote:
It doesn't. When the universe expands, as it still does today, more space is created out of literally nothing. Imagine the universe as an infinite potential well because there is nothing outside the universe.

All the particles in the universe exist in bound states within the universe and exert a quantum pressure on the side of that infinite potential well, pushing its sides apart. This lowers the energy of any individual particle by increasing its de Broglie wavelength. Of course total energy is conserved but new particles are excited out of the vacuum in the process.


My IQ is over 150. I scored a 1540 on my SATs back when that was insanely high. I was a Baker Scholar at Harvard Business School.

These threads with Moshe make me empathize with the doctor from Firely when he explained how smart he was and then said (from memory, so not exact quote), "I'm explaining this so that when I tell you that my sister makes me look like an idiot child you will understand the full extent of my meaning."

You're probably ahead of me too. But here are two great related books if you are interested and haven't read them yet:

Fabric of the Cosmos
http://www.amazon.com/Fabric-Cosmos-Space-Texture-Reality/dp...

The Particle at the End of the Universe
http://www.amazon.com/Particle-End-Universe-Higgs-Boson/dp/0...


This is also supposed to be very good but haven't read it yet:

A Briefer History of Time by Stephen Hawking and Leonard Mlodinow
http://www.amazon.com/Briefer-History-Time-Stephen-Hawking/d...
 
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I get that. These threads don't actually make me feel stupid -- they just highlight how vast the gap is between someone like me who reads New Scientist magazine and various popular science books and someone who has put in your level of work into the field.
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I'm confused. I always thought inflation made my money smaller, not bigger.
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twomillionbucks wrote:
I'm confused. I always thought inflation made my money smaller, not bigger.

The square light-years of universe you own are losing real estate value all the time.
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Inflation! I've been saying this for years! The Fed has been manipulating the CPI for decades, but the increase in the monetary base that we've seen going on since the financial crisis is clearly causing major amounts of inflation that is being hidden from us.

I am happy that we finally have scientific proof of the deceptiveness of the Federal Reserve, and all the bankers which they serve. If we returned to Gold, or even better, switch to Bitcoin, we could live in the libertarian utopia or founding fathers wanted.

What, you wanted to talk about another inflation?
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Chad_Ellis wrote:
I get that. These threads don't actually make me feel stupid -- they just highlight how vast the gap is between someone like me who reads New Scientist magazine and various popular science books and someone who has put in your level of work into the field.


What is hard for me, is that even though I can read and understand the article...I don't understand why what they are seeing proves anything. I simply don't have the background to make the nuts and bolts of their discovery meaningful to me. It's like reading a mathematical proof without understanding any of the symbols...oh...ok. E=mc^2 makes no sense at all to the lay person who has no idea what E or m or c is supposed to be...or =

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GuidoVanHorn wrote:
Chad_Ellis wrote:
I get that. These threads don't actually make me feel stupid -- they just highlight how vast the gap is between someone like me who reads New Scientist magazine and various popular science books and someone who has put in your level of work into the field.


What is hard for me, is that even though I can read and understand the article...I don't understand why what they are seeing proves anything. I simply don't have the background to make the nuts and bolts of their discovery meaningful to me. It's like reading a mathematical proof without understanding any of the symbols...oh...ok. E=mc^2 makes no sense at all to the lay person who has no idea what E or m or c is supposed to be...or =


The press is calling this a "smoking gun" for inflation. Inflation was more theoretical before, but now they have detected gravity waves immediately after the big bang, it is strong evidence that inflation did in fact occur. That's my understanding.

Inflation is the super rapid expansion of the universe, that smoothed everything out to appear as we see it. Without inflation, it's hard to otherwise explain how the universe could appear so uniform when viewed on the large scale. (As whac3 put it, "The universe is homogeneous and isotropic on cosmological scales." Isotropic = of equal physical properties along all axes.) In case you didn't already know all this.

Here's USA Today's take, which is geared more for us laypersons
http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2014/03/17/big-bang-gravi...
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Dearlove wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
I've always wondered(I'm no astronomer) if we can only see the light of 13 billion light years away(or 13 billion years ago), if we were closer to the origin or epicenter of the big bang, would we see the light of its beginning?

Everywhere is equally close to the Big Bang, because it wasn't something that happened in space, it created space.

At least, that's my definitely non-expert understanding.

Yeah, my watched-some-TV-show level of understanding is, people noticed that everything-that's-2x-away-from-us is moving away from us twice as fast as everything-that's-only-1x-away-from-us. If you run that film backwards, we were at the epicenter of the big bang, and so was everything else.
 
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So if inflation is factual, will that cause Ron Paul to double down on his support for the gold standard?
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