Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
28 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Gaming Related » Recommendations

Subject: If I own and enjoy Troyes, will Castles of Burgundy feel redundant? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Tyler Mykkanen
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Title says it all. I am trying to avoid too much overlap as we will be moving soon and the size of my collection needs to stay small.

I have heard some comparisons between the two and both appear to be dice manipulation games. I enjoy Troyes and so does my wife.

Will CoB feel like Troyes-light or a different game entirely?

Thanks for your opinions and advice!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nathan Clegg
United States
Escondido
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
No. I find they have completely different feels. I recommend watching rahdo's runthrough to get a feel for CoB. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcajXWuNR3Q
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Byron Campbell
United States
Santa Clarita
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Very different games. In Troyes, the numbers and colors of the dice matter a lot. In Castles, the dice are simply a means of limiting your choice each turn, but a 6 is not objectively better than a 1. And then what you spend those dice on is also very different, with Troyes being about getting more dice and advancing on some tracks (haven't played in a while), while Castles is about collecting sets of tiles and manipulating their special abilities to string together combos.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alison Mandible
United States
Cambridge
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
louper wrote:
Yeah, they have pretty much nothing in common except for dice, in which case they're all exactly like Monopoly.


Easy there! I've seen more than one recommendation thread where people mention both games and then say "but you probably don't need both". Having just recently gotten Troyes and liked it a lot, I was wondering the same thing as the OP.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tyler Mykkanen
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
moramis wrote:
No. I find they have completely different feels. I recommend watching rahdo's runthrough to get a feel for CoB. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcajXWuNR3Q


Thank you, I have watched Rhado's video on CoB. I guess the dice manipulation aspect seemed similar to me, but maybe I should give it another view. It's hard to tell the feel of a game without playing it myself.

kittenhoarder wrote:
Very different games. In Troyes, the numbers and colors of the dice matter a lot. In Castles, the dice are simply a means of limiting your choice each turn, but a 6 is not objectively better than a 1. And then what you spend those dice on is also very different, with Troyes being about getting more dice and advancing on some tracks (haven't played in a while), while Castles is about collecting sets of tiles and manipulating their special abilities to string together combos.


Thank you, that was a helpful explanation of the differences.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tyler Mykkanen
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
grasa_total wrote:
louper wrote:
Yeah, they have pretty much nothing in common except for dice, in which case they're all exactly like Monopoly.


Easy there! I've seen more than one recommendation thread where people mention both games and then say "but you probably don't need both". Having just recently gotten Troyes and liked it a lot, I was wondering the same thing as the OP.


Thanks, I too have seen that, which is why I posted the thread. Most of the recommendation threads I found when searching were for people moving "up" from CoB to Troyes. I have started with Troyes and want to avoid buying "Troyes-light" (which so far it doesn't sound like CoB is).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tyler Mykkanen
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
louper wrote:
Yeah, they have pretty much nothing in common except for dice, in which case they're all exactly like Monopoly.


They have more in common with each other than with Monopoly. If you described what you see as different about them, that would probably be more helpful to answering my original question.

Do you like the games? Do you see both of them, or only one fitting in a small game collection? Why?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Debien
United States
Round Rock
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Troyes is a "find the best combo and exploit it" game in which you have large pools of dice to work with, while CoB is much more tactical as you use your two dice from round to round to pickup and place tiles from an ever changing landscape.

Both very different aside from the "worker dice". Also, both very good games!

Edit: I could always add these two to my ever growing geeklist: Similar Games Face Off
6 
 Thumb up
0.02
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Phil Hendrickson
United States
Seward
Nebraska
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Tyler,
Considering the games shown in your collection, I think Castles of Burgundy would fit in nicely and not feel redundant. You don't have any Stefan Feld games yet, and CoB is a nice entry into his body of work.

I think most people would agree that CoB is lighter than Troyes, but the play is also quite different. For one example, there is no stealing of other players' dice in CoB like there is in Troyes. Troyes is more interactive than CoB, with the ability to force other players to spend dice at certain times.

The two games provide unique alternatives when deciding which game to play.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tyler Mykkanen
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DrumPhil wrote:
Tyler,
Considering the games shown in your collection, I think Castles of Burgundy would fit in nicely and not feel redundant. You don't have any Stefan Feld games yet, and CoB is a nice entry into his body of work.

I think most people would agree that CoB is lighter than Troyes, but the play is also quite different. For one example, there is no stealing of other players' dice in CoB like there is in Troyes. Troyes is more interactive than CoB, with the ability to force other players to spend dice at certain times.

The two games provide unique alternatives when deciding which game to play.


Thank you Phil, for your thoughtful response. One of the reasons I was considering CoB was because I don't have a Feld.

I enjoy tile laying and dice manipulation and I have heard it plays really well with two. Most of my game time is two player with my wife, who is also enjoying Troyes.

Sounds like the two games might be different enough to fit.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shane Larsen
United States
Salt Lake City
UT
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
People are going to say that they are "very different". And I get that. You could call any two games, very different when you dissect every element and mechanic like us BGGers do. But these two games, are in fact, the same type of game. They're both dice-manipulation games. And therefore, they provide a similar experience. You're puzzling out the best ways to use dice, and how to manipulate them to your advantage, and how to snag certain dice and actions before you opponents. In the macro sense, they are very similar.

I own Troyes and had the same questions as you. So I played CoB and decided that there was only one good reason to own both:

THE ONE GOOD REASON: If you play mostly 2 players.

Troyes is the superior game by far, IMO. So when I played CoB, I thought to myself, "Self, any time you have the itch for a dice-manipulation game, you're just going to reach for Troyes, because it's better than CoB. So you don't need this one too."

The only exception to the is if I planned on only playing the game with 2 players (or a majority of the time).

I'll admit that CoB is probably the better game when played with 2 players, but honestly not by far. Troyes is much better than people say. A have found that many who say it's no good with 2, haven't actually tried it more than once. If I had to choose only one, even considering that I might have to play it with two player often, I would still choose Troyes.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tyler Mykkanen
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
thedacker wrote:
People are going to say that they are "very different". And I get that. You could call any two games, very different when you dissect every element and mechanic like us BGGers do. But these two games, are in fact, the same type of game. They're both dice-manipulation games. And therefore, they provide a similar experience. You're puzzling out the best ways to use dice, and how to manipulate them to your advantage, and how to snag certain dice and actions before you opponents. In the macro sense, they are very similar.

I own Troyes and had the same questions as you. So I played CoB and decided that there was only one good reason to own both:

THE ONE GOOD REASON: If you play mostly 2 players.

Troyes is the superior game by far, IMO. So when I played CoB, I thought to myself, "Self, any time you have the itch for a dice-manipulation game, you're just going to reach for Troyes, because it's better than CoB. So you don't need this one too."

The only exception to the is if I planned on only playing the game with 2 players (or a majority of the time).

I'll admit that CoB is probably the better game when played with 2 players, but honestly not by far. Troyes is much better than people say. A have found that many who say it's no good with 2, haven't actually tried it more than once. If I had to choose only one, even considering that I might have to play it with two player often, I would still choose Troyes.


Shane, thank you for your response. This is exactly the conclusion I am thinking I might reach once I play CoB. I mostly game 2 players though, so perhaps CoB would get played more due to delivering a similar "feel" but playing better with two (though I thought Troyes played just fine with two).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shane Larsen
United States
Salt Lake City
UT
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
tmykkanen wrote:
DrumPhil wrote:
Tyler,
Considering the games shown in your collection, I think Castles of Burgundy would fit in nicely and not feel redundant. You don't have any Stefan Feld games yet, and CoB is a nice entry into his body of work.

I think most people would agree that CoB is lighter than Troyes, but the play is also quite different. For one example, there is no stealing of other players' dice in CoB like there is in Troyes. Troyes is more interactive than CoB, with the ability to force other players to spend dice at certain times.

The two games provide unique alternatives when deciding which game to play.


Thank you Phil, for your thoughtful response. One of the reasons I was considering CoB was because I don't have a Feld.


My entry into the Feld world was Trajan. Trajan provides a unique experience from the cool rond-cala mechanic he uses there. I still have it, and in fact, it's the only Feld I currently still have. I've owned and gotten rid of two of his others (The Speicherstadt and Arena: Roma II), and as I said before, I tried CoB and felt no desire to own it because Troyes is such a better game that scratches a similar itch for me.

There are definitely other Feld options outside of CoB.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shane Larsen
United States
Salt Lake City
UT
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
tmykkanen wrote:
thedacker wrote:
People are going to say that they are "very different". And I get that. You could call any two games, very different when you dissect every element and mechanic like us BGGers do. But these two games, are in fact, the same type of game. They're both dice-manipulation games. And therefore, they provide a similar experience. You're puzzling out the best ways to use dice, and how to manipulate them to your advantage, and how to snag certain dice and actions before you opponents. In the macro sense, they are very similar.

I own Troyes and had the same questions as you. So I played CoB and decided that there was only one good reason to own both:

THE ONE GOOD REASON: If you play mostly 2 players.

Troyes is the superior game by far, IMO. So when I played CoB, I thought to myself, "Self, any time you have the itch for a dice-manipulation game, you're just going to reach for Troyes, because it's better than CoB. So you don't need this one too."

The only exception to the is if I planned on only playing the game with 2 players (or a majority of the time).

I'll admit that CoB is probably the better game when played with 2 players, but honestly not by far. Troyes is much better than people say. A have found that many who say it's no good with 2, haven't actually tried it more than once. If I had to choose only one, even considering that I might have to play it with two player often, I would still choose Troyes.


Shane, thank you for your response. This is exactly the conclusion I am thinking I might reach once I play CoB. I mostly game 2 players though, so perhaps CoB would get played more due to delivering a similar "feel" but playing better with two (though I thought Troyes played just fine with two).


I too agree that Troyes plays just fine with 2. That's why even with all the CoB, 2-player praising, I still decided against it. My wife and I love Troyes whenever it comes out, whether it's just us or not. In fact, she puts Troyes as one of her favorite games of all time. When she told me that, I asked her, "Even if it's just the two of us playing it?" To which she answered, "I never noticed any difference between multiple players, or just two."

So, there's that.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
M. Shanmugasundaram
United States
Sunnyvale
California
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
I've played all the games under primary discussion.

Troyes is great. If you really enjoy it, I'd guess you'd feel the same way I do about CoB.
CoB, I'll play, but never felt the need to own. It just feels a little mechanical and ... slow? to me.
Speicherstadt and Arena (I&II) I didn't care for.

I can't imagine starting my Feld experience with Trajan. My head would have probably exploded. It's one of my favorite games, but I just can't imaging starting with it. My "gateway" Feld was Notre Dame, but I don't think it plays just 2.

If it's dice manipulation you're looking for, I'd recommend To Court the King (which is very simplistic and pure) or Kingsburg or, if you want to work a little harder, try Alien Frontiers or Quantum.

If you want to stick with Feld, and you want dice manipulation for familiarity, Macao is a pretty good bet. Round setup seems tedious, but it wears off after 1-2 games. Really, it's only flipping a few cards over. As with Troyes, dice manipulation in Macao is a means to the end. In To Court the King (and to a significant extent, Kingsburg), it's all about dice manipulation.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nathan Clegg
United States
Escondido
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm a big Lehman fan, but To Court the King never worked for me. It felt quite neat on the first play. By the third, I thought all the decisions were obvious and quite dull.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Justin Fuhrmann
United States
Harrison
Ohio
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
My wife and I enjoy both Troyes and Castles of Burgundy. I don't think they feel very much the same at all. While they both use dice for actions, Troyes is more mathy and Castles has more of a puzzle aspect to it that makes them feel very different. Troyes also has the attacks that you have to deal with, while Castles of Burgundy doesn't. My wife and I enjoy them both, but both of us like Castles of Burgundy better than Troyes (it's in both of our top 10's).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shane Larsen
United States
Salt Lake City
UT
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
rumble wrote:
I can't imagine starting my Feld experience with Trajan. My head would have probably exploded. It's one of my favorite games, but I just can't imaging starting with it. My "gateway" Feld was Notre Dame, but I don't think it plays just 2.


I found that teaching Trajan is actually pretty easy after teaching it several times. Just follow these rules:

1. Tell the players that they're playing a point-salad game. Which means that the player with the most points at the end of the game is the winner. But the points come from almost everything you do. So as you explain the game, you'll see how the points come.

2. Explain that the game is divided into 6 different mini-games being played simultaneously. On your turn, you will choose one of those mini games to play.

3. Those 6 mini games are also the actions you have to choose from, each one is found on the rond-cala, here. Then explain how each mini-game works (each one is very simple), and don't forget to mention every time you get points.

4. Lastly, explain how action selection works mechanically (the rond-cala and the tokens on it).

--

When you take your first turn, tell them how game timer is moved every turn. Do it as you do your first turn and they will understand immediately.

That's it. It's actually an easy game to teach if you break it down right.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan Harrison
United States
Fisher
Illinois
flag msg tools
So long ...
badge
... and thanks for all the fish.
Avatar
mb
rumble wrote:
My "gateway" Feld was Notre Dame, but I don't think it plays just 2.

Actually it does, right out of the box. All but 1 of my plays of Notre Dame have been with 2, and it plays very well that way.

Actually our first Feld was Trajan; it was the first I’d heard of him.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan Harrison
United States
Fisher
Illinois
flag msg tools
So long ...
badge
... and thanks for all the fish.
Avatar
mb
thedacker wrote:
People are going to say that they are "very different". And I get that. You could call any two games, very different when you dissect every element and mechanic like us BGGers do. But these two games, are in fact, the same type of game. They're both dice-manipulation games. And therefore, they provide a similar experience. You're puzzling out the best ways to use dice, and how to manipulate them to your advantage, and how to snag certain dice and actions before you opponents. In the macro sense, they are very similar.

I own Troyes and had the same questions as you. So I played CoB and decided that there was only one good reason to own both:

THE ONE GOOD REASON: If you play mostly 2 players.

Troyes is the superior game by far, IMO. So when I played CoB, I thought to myself, "Self, any time you have the itch for a dice-manipulation game, you're just going to reach for Troyes, because it's better than CoB. So you don't need this one too."

The only exception to the is if I planned on only playing the game with 2 players (or a majority of the time).

I'll admit that CoB is probably the better game when played with 2 players, but honestly not by far. Troyes is much better than people say. A have found that many who say it's no good with 2, haven't actually tried it more than once. If I had to choose only one, even considering that I might have to play it with two player often, I would still choose Troyes.

Fwiw I own both and would get rid of neither. And I play almost only 2-player.

But that’s not for thinking Troyes doesn’t play well 2-player (it does); it’s just that they’re different enough that neither overlaps much for me.

Troyes is a combo-finding game.

Castles of Burgundy is a, uh, Feld game. Hard to describe it other than to say that.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
bryce kartchner
United States
Centerville
Utah
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
First, I own both games, and to me, they feel very different.
The key difference fore me is that Troyes is very confrontational and interactive. Because of this, I will not play that title with certain groups. Castles of Burgundy feels much friendly. Many times during the game, certain people take tiles that you want, which makes the game exiting. Player interaction exists in CoB, but it is much more subtle. I put this game on the table with a different crowd than Troyes. For this reason, I think both games can have quite a nice place in any gamer collection.

For the records, I don't think that CoB is that much lighter than Troyes. There are a lot of tiles to memorize in CoB. To me, Troyes feels not like the bigger brother of CoB, but the meaner, more confrontational sibling of the two.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew Teeter
United States
Loveland
Colorado
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You've received a lot of good advice in this thread already, but since I just went through the process of comparing them I thought I'd throw my two cents in.

I agree with those who feel Troyes offers a deeper experience, and with those who think the two games feature gameplay different enough that some would find room in their collection for both. I only wanted to own one "interesting dice Euro," and I made my choice based on three factors: Troyes shines with three or four, while CoB is best with two (90% of my gaming is just me and my wife); CoB plays more quickly, which encourages me to get it to the table more frequently; CoB doesn't require a rules refresh if I want to play after having let it languish on the shelf for a few months.

If you've got room for both games I think the choice is easy - Troyes on occasions when you've got more players, and CoB on occasions when it's just two of you.

Hope that helps.

Matthew
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tyler Mykkanen
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thank you, everyone, for all of the advice. I decided to go ahead and order CoB. I think we will like it and it will provide enough difference from Troyes for us.

If I remember, I will report back on our impressions once it gets to the table.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shane Larsen
United States
Salt Lake City
UT
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
In the end, something you have to consider is your collection size. Most people here on BGG, have larger-than-average-size collections.

If you are the type of person who wants to manage only a small collection, there might not be enough room for both. But, if you're like most people here on BGG, you have a large collection. And two dice-manipulation games can be dissected further to see their differences.

So something that might be wise is to look at people's collection sizes as they make their recommendations, and decide what kinds of cuts you have to make personally to your collection to maintain that "ideal" size for you and your current home and marriage (if applicable ).

Let us know how it goes!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tyler Mykkanen
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
thedacker wrote:
In the end, something you have to consider is your collection size. Most people here on BGG, have larger-than-average-size collections.

If you are the type of person who wants to manage only a small collection, there might not be enough room for both. But, if you're like most people here on BGG, you have a large collection. And two dice-manipulation games can be dissected further to see their differences.

So something that might be wise is to look at people's collection sizes as they make their recommendations, and decide what kinds of cuts you have to make personally to your collection to maintain that "ideal" size for you and your current home and marriage (if applicable ).

Let us know how it goes!


thedacker wrote:
In the end, something you have to consider is your collection size. Most people here on BGG, have larger-than-average-size collections.

If you are the type of person who wants to manage only a small collection, there might not be enough room for both. But, if you're like most people here on BGG, you have a large collection. And two dice-manipulation games can be dissected further to see their differences.

So something that might be wise is to look at people's collection sizes as they make their recommendations, and decide what kinds of cuts you have to make personally to your collection to maintain that "ideal" size for you and your current home and marriage (if applicable ).

Let us know how it goes!


Good point, Shane.

Right now, due to space and time, I am forming a 25 game collection and practicing a 1 in 1 out policy. Not easy to do! Right now there is room for both. Perhaps down the line one or the other will have to go.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.