aiyah brazzle
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Card reads:

Play after a base scores if there is a base in the discard pile. Add a base of your choice from the discard pile instead of drawing a new base from the deck.

So since it does not read "Special" does that mean you can't play it out of turn (like a Shinobi or Pirate King?) If so, then how exactly do you play it as an action if you score a base AFTER you've played your minions and actions?

Thanksforhelp.jpg
 
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Spencer Zimmerman
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aiyah702 wrote:
Card reads:

Play after a base scores if there is a base in the discard pile. Add a base of your choice from the discard pile instead of drawing a new base from the deck.

So since it does not read "Special" does that mean you can't play it out of turn (like a Shinobi or Pirate King?) If so, then how exactly do you play it as an action if you score a base AFTER you've played your minions and actions?

Thanksforhelp.jpg


The card says "Play after a base scores," That is when you play it. Although it doesn't say special you are playing it at a different time than normal.
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Norm Al
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I think in the Cthulu expansion whenever you saw "Play on a base", it was assumed that it was an Ongoing action. Likewise, I'm thinking that Play after a base scores implies Special.

Just my 2 cents.
 
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Kevin Tamayo
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It's a design flaw again. I love Smash Up but, what the hell AEG!?! What's wrong with you!? You did it again, like in Cthulhu Expansion. Can someone post the images of the said errata? Thanks in advanced. I will redesign it again for the convenience of my group.
 
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Kevin Tamayo
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Saint Sinner wrote:
Quote:
It's a design flaw again.


Reading the card (carefully, if need be)and subsequently doing what it says (instead of what it doesn't say) hardly constitutes a flawed design.


I thought it too at first but, why do they put effort on creating cards with "Special" ability that says:

Quote:
Most abilities happen when you play a card. Special abilities happen at unusual times or in unusual ways. Special abilities might be on a card already in play or held in your hand. A card’s ability will describe how it can be used. If you use a Special ability to play a card on your turn, it doesn’t count as one of your free cards for that turn.


"Time is Fleeting" will be played after "Check for Scoring Phase" and you can't play regular actions on that time, so "Time is Fleeting" is considered a "Special Card".

and what I really mean on "design flaw" is the "card design only".
 
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Ryan Post
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kttamayo wrote:
Saint Sinner wrote:
Quote:
It's a design flaw again.


Reading the card (carefully, if need be)and subsequently doing what it says (instead of what it doesn't say) hardly constitutes a flawed design.


I thought it too at first but, why do they put effort on creating cards with "Special" ability that says:

Quote:
Most abilities happen when you play a card. Special abilities happen at unusual times or in unusual ways. Special abilities might be on a card already in play or held in your hand. A card’s ability will describe how it can be used. If you use a Special ability to play a card on your turn, it doesn’t count as one of your free cards for that turn.


"Time is Fleeting" will be played after "Check for Scoring Phase" and you can't play regular actions on that time, so "Time is Fleeting" is considered a "Special Card".

and what I really mean on "design flaw" is the "card design only".


I have to agree. The rules clearly state cards that don't say special times must be played on your turn. This card, if read by the rules, could literally never work.
 
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Timothy Goddard
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AEG wrote:
Play after a base scores if there is a base in the discard pile.


AEG wrote:
A card’s ability will describe how it can be used.


I have looked in vain for the rule that says "only cards labeled 'Special' can be considered 'Special'." Clearly that was the idea at first, but just as clearly, that's not really necessary, and takes up valuable space on the card.

And, of course, even if it did say that somewhere...

AEG wrote:
Often, card text and rules text will conflict. When there's a fight, card text always wins.
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Kevin Tamayo
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timgoddard wrote:
AEG wrote:
Play after a base scores if there is a base in the discard pile.


AEG wrote:
A card’s ability will describe how it can be used.


I have looked in vain for the rule that says "only cards labeled 'Special' can be considered 'Special'." Clearly that was the idea at first, but just as clearly, that's not really necessary, and takes up valuable space on the card.

And, of course, even if it did say that somewhere...

AEG wrote:
Often, card text and rules text will conflict. When there's a fight, card text always wins.


Yes, I totally agree with you, but it's still considered a "Special" ability. And if i'm(you or somebody that cares about the clarity of the rule.) the one designing the card I would definitely put "Special" on that even if it takes up "valuable" space on the card. As I already said I'm only complaining about the card design.

Edit: P.S. You're a designer too, so tell me if I'm wrong.
 
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Simon Tan
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kttamayo wrote:
Saint Sinner wrote:
Quote:
It's a design flaw again.


Reading the card (carefully, if need be)and subsequently doing what it says (instead of what it doesn't say) hardly constitutes a flawed design.


I thought it too at first but, why do they put effort on creating cards with "Special" ability that says:

Quote:
Most abilities happen when you play a card. Special abilities happen at unusual times or in unusual ways. Special abilities might be on a card already in play or held in your hand. A card’s ability will describe how it can be used. If you use a Special ability to play a card on your turn, it doesn’t count as one of your free cards for that turn.


"Time is Fleeting" will be played after "Check for Scoring Phase" and you can't play regular actions on that time, so "Time is Fleeting" is considered a "Special Card".

and what I really mean on "design flaw" is the "card design only".


Checked the rulebook: they're still supporting Special and Ongoing, so it appears to be an editing/proofreading flaw. Personally, I would rather just remove Ongoing and Special from the lexicon and just add "Play On a ____".

*rant begins*

Based on this and Obligatory Cthulhu, it appears that the editing team of AEG has dropped the ball once again. If this was 1994-5, it would be somewhat forgivable as Magic: the Gathering was also having this problem, but with time this doesn't work. The fact that AEG also publishes L5R, which if I am not mistaken has a decent development and editing team, makes this even more inexcusable.

At this point, AEG will have to admit that they need to take this game more seriously if they want to continue supporting it. They have to stop treating this as a "light" game; a game that has this amount of on-board complexity and encourages a lot of competition needs to have clear and definitive rules to cover the possible interactions and details that are sure to come up. It doesn't have to be packaged with the game... there's no way Wizards will sell their product bundled with the 300+ Comprehensive Rules manual, but it has to exist and be available for players to consult.

I would sure as heck like to see this game get more traction and be more than what it is today, but the developers need to give more than the token support it is giving. In fact, I would rather see them increase the time between expansions if this means clearer rules and no mistakes in card editing.

*end rant* (For the record, I still enjoy this game.)
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Bryan Stout
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I was a playtester for this expansion. The original version of this card did say "Special". Its name changed and its wording was tweaked since the playtest period, and I can only assume that dropping "Special" was an editorial oversight. The rough draft versions of several cards omitted important labels like Ongoing or Special, and we would point those out. Most of these errors were corrected, but sometimes they are forgotten, or new ones introduced as in this case.

An editorial slip is not the same as a design flaw. I am dismayed by it as well, but none of these omissions is crippling to game play, since the intension is pretty clear. As someone said in a different thread here, there is no way Time Is Fleeting's ability can be anything but Special.
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Alfred Spangler
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Don't listen to them, "Time is Fleeting." I think you're special.
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Don Riddle
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Barliman wrote:
An editorial slip is not the same as a design flaw.

THIS.

And as far as misprints go, it's pretty minor since the card still makes sense. Only trouble is... can you play this card if Mindraker is out?
 
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McGregor Crowley
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I agree with Don Riddle, the biggest issue with this card missing the "special" labeling is the that "special" actions now carry an interaction with Mindraker.

As far as the interaction with Mindraker and Time is Fleeting goes, I would say the two don't interact as the Mindraker prevents playing specials while a base is scoring and Time is Fleeting is played after a base is scored.

Moreover, the fact Mindraker is discarded in process of scoring a base so it's possible that Mindraker doesn't stick around long enough to be active during this time. This extra bit isn't relevant to these cards, but interesting to think about and certainly something the design might have considered when making Mindraker.
 
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