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Warhammer: Diskwars» Forums » Variants

Subject: less impact of being first, to have more freedom in setup ? rss

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jonatan dyre
Denmark
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The rules encourage players to come up with their own variants and battlefield setup to suit their gaming tastes.(p 15.)

I like the rules as written for the fast setup and play, but the way turn order and terrain, deployment and scenario objectives are linked together does not make variation that easy to come up with.

The problem is that as the rules are now, terrain setup and choice of scenario objective is second players compensation for not being first in initiative.

That do seem to create a meta game in it self where some actions becomes scripted. Like the swamp drop in opponents deployment zone, forcing him to split deployment zones before that becomes an option etc.

I do wonder if it is possible in an easy way to tweak setup a little, to have more flexibility. I like to see some mechanics/rules where terrain is agreed upon before sides of tables are chosen and deployment zones picked,(maybe even before armies are build).


But i think then the impact of initiative needs to be tweaked. I suggest that in case of same type of card is played by both players (two bold cards as example) then it is maybe highest number of units activated that goes first. And initiative first came in play in case of a tie in both strategy and numbers of activation.

This little change will basically change the odds (if card are picked random or totally without regard for the opponent choices) from something around 3/4 to be much closer to 1/2 that the player with the initiative token goes first.

This should give freedom to experiment more with setups instead of having to give player 2 huge but needed advantages.

any suggestions ?



 
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Paul DeStefano
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Yet another reason the expansions will deepen the game.

More terrain variations.
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Asen Aleksandrov
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jondifool wrote:
I suggest that in case of same type of card is played by both players (two bold cards as example) then it is maybe highest number of units activated that goes first. And initiative first came in play in case of a tie in both strategy and numbers of activation.


I haven't thought of any tweaks yet (I am extremely green), but I will try this variant next time we play, it looks promising.
 
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Benjamin Bottorff
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Doesn't sounds like a bad idea.

I can see what you mean about the terrain metagame (which is particularly powerful with only five terrain cards). That said, I'd rather come up with some other way to deal with the terrain; mostly, I've dealt with it by adjusting my tactics. When I first started playing, I tended to play very shooter heavy order armies by preference. I discovered that if I didn't go second, that I would almost invariably end up with a cave between me and my opponents deployment zones and the other terrain would fall into place very naturally. I've since branched out more favouring more melee centric armies that can punish those who think they're safe to mass at the cave and generally making the game more interesting than the "see if you can shoot down everyone charging you before they get to you vs see if you can charge the enemy down before they shoot you down" play that the game was like when I first played. As I've changed how I've played my opponents have picked up on it and terrain placement has gotten less automatic. There are still some things that could be done.

Another way you could try, would be to place terrain before deployment zones and let player with initiative place first, and then let second player pick which side of the board is they put their deployment zones on. (opponent automatically spawns on the opposite side) This would create a kind of theieves divide effect that could lead to more balanced terrain placement (though as you pointed out, it would weaken the advantage of going second).

All in all, I think just having more types of terrain would help a lot.
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MechaBri Zilla
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I have two cores, if you mix in the terrain from both core sets it can dilute this problem a little. Although, I'm not sure if I like it. Certain strategies rely on things like the cave to work.

We've played both ways, with both sets of terrain and with a single set. The nice thing about a single set is that it can help you to against ranged armies if you are using a melee heave list.

Of course, you could draw two caves too and that ends up being a bit much.

Add me to the list of people how can't wait for the new terrain.
 
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Rob L
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MechaBriZilla wrote:
I have two cores, if you mix in the terrain from both core sets it can dilute this problem a little. Although, I'm not sure if I like it. Certain strategies rely on things like the cave to work.


I have two sets too, and I prefer to mix the terrain. It forces you to deal with more randomness and come up with more versatile lists. Granted, getting doubles on the terrain can make some interesting situations, but overall it's been a lot more fun with the second set added in.

We've also houseruled out the "drop the swap in your opponent's deployment zone" thing. It makes the game more fun for everyone. While it does make the second player a little less powerful, the group I play with likes it, so we're keeping it.

Also considering trying it with terrain placed before deployment zones get picked. Though if that is the case, like others have said, that might lessen the impact of going second.

And as others have said, I think that more terrain options will help this quite a bit.
 
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jonatan dyre
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I am close to make that house rule as well about the deployment Zone.

But i think i actual just prefer to have deployments zones placed after terrain. And with that i just think some tweak of first player power is going to be needed!

Now i guess that the card with highest unit activation should go first in case of two identical order types are picked, simply because they are less interesting , but it could be the other way around! Lower unit activation number means less impact of being first!

What do you think works best ?
 
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