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Tide of Iron: Stalingrad» Forums » Rules

Subject: Shield of Armor rss

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Nathaniel Beck
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West Allis
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Shield of Armor Operations card (#54)
Text of card:
"If a friendly squad is in the same hex as two friendly Heavy Vehicles, that squad can only be targeted by area attacks or sniper attacks.
If targeted by an area attack, the squad receives +2 cover.
If targeted by a sniper attack, the squad reduces the number of dice rolled by the sniper by two."

Situation:
A hex has two tanks and an infantry squad in it (at it's stacking limit).
Another infantry squad is activated during the action phase and moves through that same hex. An enemy tank is in op fire and has LOS to this hex.
Question:
Does the Shield of Armor card also cover squads that are moving through the full hex, but not stopping there?

Two interpretations:
(1) My friend believes that since the squad that was already in the hex is covered by the Shield of Armor, another squad could not also take advantage of the Shield of Armor and could then be fired upon by Op Fire as it moved through the hex. Basically, that the hex is at it's stacking limit, therefore, the moving squad does not gain the benefit.

(2) I believe, that since the infantry squad moving through the hex meets the criteria of the card (it is in the same hex as 2 heavy vehicles), it would be covered by the Shield of Armor card as it's moving through the hex, regardless of whether another squad is already in that hex. Basically, that regardless of stacking limits, the moving squad can take advantage of the cover in that hex during an Op Fire attack even if it doesn't stop in the hex and is just moving through.

Which interpretation is correct?
 
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Ray
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I can see good arguments for both sides, but I would tend to favor interpretation #2 because of the wording "If a friendly squad is in the same hex as two friendly Heavy Vehicles..."

We would need an official ruling though.
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clive holland
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I would also go for the second option. If an infantry unit was going through a wooded area they would get the cover so why not with this special card? And as RG says the wording of the card implies this.
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Willem Boersma
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dutchy124 wrote:
I would also go for the second option. If an infantry unit was going through a wooded area they would get the cover so why not with this special card? And as RG says the wording of the card implies this.


Agreed. At that specific moment the squad is in the same hex as two heavy vehicles after all...
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Nathaniel Beck
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boersma8 wrote:
dutchy124 wrote:
I would also go for the second option. If an infantry unit was going through a wooded area they would get the cover so why not with this special card? And as RG says the wording of the card implies this.


Agreed. At that specific moment the squad is in the same hex as two heavy vehicles after all...

Yes, the calculation of cover based on what hex the squad is currently in during movement was my main argument. And the card also doesn't state anything like "if the squad ends its movement in a hex with 2 heavy vehicles".... Just says that the squad has to be in the same hex...
 
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bill jaffe
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hey i would say officially go with interpretation 2

bill
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Martin Gallo
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skinsfan wrote:
hey i would say officially go with interpretation 2

bill
Just out of curiosity, why bother with having stacking limits?
 
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Willem Boersma
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martimer wrote:
skinsfan wrote:
hey i would say officially go with interpretation 2

bill
Just out of curiosity, why bother with having stacking limits?


Because also physically you won't be able to squeeze more than three units (2 vehicles max) into any given hex (-;
 
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Martin Gallo
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Great. Except that in this thread the hex gets overstocked but that has no effect.

Simple game, I get that, but the usual design reasoning behind stacking rules is to prevent "operationally ineffective" or ahistorical tactics - putting too much stuff in an area leads to increased casualties (from mass effects and ineffective cover) reduction in firepower and other issues.

Maybe I play too many other games?
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Nathaniel Beck
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The stacking limits do not allow a unit to stop there, but they can move through. While they are moving through that hex, they are treated as being in that hex for game purposes such as for cover, OpFire, etc. So the stacking limit is temporarily ignored for a unit that is just moving through. The stacking limit rule even states that if the unit were to get pinned or otherwise stopped, it would have to move back to the last legal hex it was in, thereby, making sure that stacking limits are not violated. Stacking limits in TOI apply to where a unit ends its movement, not where it moves through.
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Willem Boersma
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martimer wrote:
Great. Except that in this thread the hex gets overstocked but that has no effect.

Simple game, I get that, but the usual design reasoning behind stacking rules is to prevent "operationally ineffective" or ahistorical tactics - putting too much stuff in an area leads to increased casualties (from mass effects and ineffective cover) reduction in firepower and other issues.

Maybe I play too many other games?


Well, you're right, but even in TOI it's often not a good idea to bunch up too many units in a single hex. Ever had three squads in a hex and a double moretar suppressive attack raining down on it? (or a series of artillery cards).
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Martin Gallo
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I think I am just trying to add too much detail to a "simple" (and very playable) game. We all have a different idea of how much granularity is the right amount.
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