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Subject: If you pass, are you out of the round? rss

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Troy Ma
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When I played with friends, if someone passes, they are not allowed to play that round.

I just tried this game online and it seems like it's ok to play in a round you passed. Is that right?

Another rule that I got confused is, "you can call tichu as long as you haven't played YOUR first card". Does that mean everyone can play their first card and I can call tichu after seeing everyone's cards?
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Matt Gustafson
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If you pass, you can play a card later. This is helpful if your partner has the trick you can pass, but if your opponents are leading it, you can jump back in if possible.

Everyone else can have played a card, but if you have not played a card yet, you can call a tichu.
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Troy Ma
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thanks. i just saw someone play "12345" where 1 is the special card that allows for a wish and he wished for an Ace.

What does this even mean? Someone has to play a straight with an ace? How can that be possible?
 
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Paul Beasi
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If someone has 10-A, they would have to play it. Or if they could make 10-A using the Phoenix (as any of those cards except the A), they would have to play that, too. Or a bomb containing an Ace.

If that trick ends and the wish isn't met, then all manner of things could happen. If the next lead is 666 someone could get stuck playing AAA or AAPh.
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seqiro wrote:
If someone has 10-A, they would have to play it. Of if they could make 10-A using the Phoenix (as any of those cards except the A), they would have to play that, too. Or a bomb containing an Ace.

If that trick ends and the wish isn't met, then all manner of things could happen. If the next lead is 666 someone could get stuck playing AAA or AAPh.


I thought a wish couldn't force a Phoenix play.
 
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Jonathan C
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pilotbob wrote:
seqiro wrote:
If someone has 10-A, they would have to play it. Of if they could make 10-A using the Phoenix (as any of those cards except the A), they would have to play that, too. Or a bomb containing an Ace.

If that trick ends and the wish isn't met, then all manner of things could happen. If the next lead is 666 someone could get stuck playing AAA or AAPh.


I thought a wish couldn't force a Phoenix play.


A wish can absolutely force a Phoenix to be played as part of a full house or straight if you hold the wished-for card in question. But wishing for a single "2" does not mean that you must play your Phoenix as a 2.
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Mark McEvoy
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looleypalooley wrote:
pilotbob wrote:
seqiro wrote:
If someone has 10-A, they would have to play it. Of if they could make 10-A using the Phoenix (as any of those cards except the A), they would have to play that, too. Or a bomb containing an Ace.

If that trick ends and the wish isn't met, then all manner of things could happen. If the next lead is 666 someone could get stuck playing AAA or AAPh.


I thought a wish couldn't force a Phoenix play.


A wish can absolutely force a Phoenix to be played as part of a full house or straight if you hold the wished-for card in question. But wishing for a single "2" does not mean that you must play your Phoenix as a 2.


A phoenix as a single is never a whole rank anyway. It's a half-rank above the single it beats.

It is true that, if there is a legal wish-satisfying play, you must make it, even if that means playing the Phoenix. But the phoenix itself is not considered to be that rank for wish-fulfilling purposes.

Which is to say if I lead I2345 and wish a 7, and you have 5 6 8 9 and a ph but no 7... you can play 56ph89 if you'd like, or you can choose not to, and in either case the wish-for-7 is still unfulfilled.

But if I lead I2345 and wish a 7, and you have 5 6 7 9 and a ph but no 8... you're going to have to play a 7-including straight (maybe even 5-6-7-ph-9 if that's your only option) fulfill the wish, because you had a legal play involving an actual 7.
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Jonathan C
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thatmarkguy wrote:
looleypalooley wrote:
pilotbob wrote:
seqiro wrote:
If someone has 10-A, they would have to play it. Of if they could make 10-A using the Phoenix (as any of those cards except the A), they would have to play that, too. Or a bomb containing an Ace.

If that trick ends and the wish isn't met, then all manner of things could happen. If the next lead is 666 someone could get stuck playing AAA or AAPh.


I thought a wish couldn't force a Phoenix play.


A wish can absolutely force a Phoenix to be played as part of a full house or straight if you hold the wished-for card in question. But wishing for a single "2" does not mean that you must play your Phoenix as a 2.


A phoenix as a single is never a whole rank anyway. It's a half-rank above the single it beats.

It is true that, if there is a legal wish-satisfying play, you must make it, even if that means playing the Phoenix. But the phoenix itself is not considered to be that rank for wish-fulfilling purposes.

Which is to say if I lead I2345 and wish a 7, and you have 5 6 8 9 and a ph but no 7... you can play 56ph89 if you'd like, or you can choose not to, and in either case the wish-for-7 is still unfulfilled.

But if I lead I2345 and wish a 7, and you have 5 6 7 9 and a ph but no 8... you're going to have to play a 7-including straight (maybe even 5-6-7-ph-9 if that's your only option) fulfill the wish, because you had a legal play involving an actual 7.


Well spoken; this is what I meant to say, but I was in a hurry and it didn't come out quite right
 
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Mark Halsey
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I thought a Wish could only be made if the Mah Jong was played as a single card. Of course I rarely see someone get to play a 1 - 5 so maybe I just haven't encountered it.

 
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Mark McEvoy
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TWrecks wrote:
I thought a Wish could only be made if the Mah Jong was played as a single card. Of course I rarely see someone get to play a 1 - 5 so maybe I just haven't encountered it.



A wish can be made when the MJ is played no matter how it's played (though single and straight are necessarily the only two options; PH can't be another MJ so stairs, pairs, and full houses cannot include MJ).

A player who plays the MJ in a straight will often choose not to make a wish, because unlike a single play where you can be fairly sure not to damage your partner by calling a card known or likely to be in your first opponent's hand, you can never be sure if your opponent has a straight, and thus there's the risk you could be wrecking your partner's hand by forcing them to play a straight they don't want to play.
 
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Curt Carpenter
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thatmarkguy wrote:
A player who plays the MJ in a straight will often choose not to make a wish, because unlike a single play where you can be fairly sure not to damage your partner by calling a card known or likely to be in your first opponent's hand, you can never be sure if your opponent has a straight, and thus there's the risk you could be wrecking your partner's hand by forcing them to play a straight they don't want to play.

Although personally, I only avoid the wish when I have extra information to go on (e.g. my P called Tichu, although leading a straight in that case is generally bad anyway). All things being equal (equal chance of each of the three other players being able to fulfill the wish) you're at least twice as likely to hit an opponent as you are to hit your partner. I generally take gambles when they're in my favor. They pay out in the long run, even if it causes some pain now and then, which tends to be more memorable.
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Troy Ma
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A couple more questions

1. If I have the dog and my partner went out, playing the dog passes the turn back to me right?

2. In regarding to scoring, I just downloaded the ipad app and it didn't work as I expected. Are the following correct?

a. +200 if both of us go out before the other team
b. +100 if I call tichu and go out first
c. +200 if I can grand tichu and go out first
d. +300 if I call tichu and both of us go out first/second
e. +400 if I call grand tichu if both of us go out first/second
f. -100 if I call tichu and didn't go out first
g. -200 if I call grand tichu and didn't go out first

Are the above correct? I think the ipad app didn't respect 2e above and I'm pretty sure there were cases where I call tichu and didn't make it but the game didn't subtract 100 pts
 
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Mark McEvoy
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troy4u wrote:
1. If I have the dog and my partner went out, playing the dog passes the turn back to me right?


Not necessarily. The lead passes to your partner's 'seat'. If that seat is vacant (of a player still holding cards), it passes to the next active player. So if you play clockwise, and your partner is out but the opponent to your right is still in, the dog will give the lead to your opponent on your right. If BOTH your partner and your opponent on your right is out, the lead would come back to you.



troy4u wrote:
a. +200 if both of us go out before the other team


Well, 200 *instead* of card-points. If there's a 1-2, it's a 200 point hand (plus/minus tichu bonuses) and it doesn't matter where 5-10-K-Dr-Ph ended up.

I think that's the distinction you need to make here. Hands that go 1-2 don't care about card points, while hands that don't go 1-2 do. So you could call Tichu, miss, and still gain as many as 25 points that hand (you could have taken as many as 125 card points to your opponent's -25). If you call Tichu, miss, but your side takes exactly 100 card points, that hand will go into the books as 0-0.

So scoring is like this:

If 1-2:
base score of 200-0
else
base score is points in cards taken by each side (5s worth 5, Ks and 10s worth 10, Dr worth 25, Ph worth -25; will total 100)

*remember that at end of hand, last remaining player gives his taken cards to first-player out, and gives cards-remaining-in-hand to opponents; also remember that if the Dr took a 'trick', that trick was placed in an opponent's taken-cards pile at that time.

then:
+100 for each Tichu called and made
-100 for each Tichu called and not-made
+200 for each Grand Tichu called and made
-200 for each Grand Tichu called and not-made
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Curt Carpenter
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It's better (imo) to not enumerate all the possible combinations, and rather think of them independently.

I have used the app over many games, and through course of that seen all kinds of scoring scenarios. I have never seen it make a mistake. Hence I'm pretty confident that it doesn't.
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Aaron Fuegi
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curtc wrote:
thatmarkguy wrote:
A player who plays the MJ in a straight will often choose not to make a wish, because unlike a single play where you can be fairly sure not to damage your partner by calling a card known or likely to be in your first opponent's hand, you can never be sure if your opponent has a straight, and thus there's the risk you could be wrecking your partner's hand by forcing them to play a straight they don't want to play.

Although personally, I only avoid the wish when I have extra information to go on (e.g. my P called Tichu, although leading a straight in that case is generally bad anyway). All things being equal (equal chance of each of the three other players being able to fulfill the wish) you're at least twice as likely to hit an opponent as you are to hit your partner. I generally take gambles when they're in my favor. They pay out in the long run, even if it causes some pain now and then, which tends to be more memorable.


It is true that you are around twice as likely to hit the opponents. However, the issue is that often the opponents would want to play over your straight anyway. Your partner probably would not want to. This factor makes a big difference.
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Curt Carpenter
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aarondf@bu.edu wrote:
It is true that you are around twice as likely to hit the opponents. However, the issue is that often the opponents would want to play over your straight anyway. Your partner probably would not want to. This factor makes a big difference.

Good point. I try to wish for the upper end of the straight, such that if they had a longer straight (fairly common, if any they have any straight at all) it would force danglers on the low end, such that opponents would not want to play that straight. But your point is still valid.
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Will Yum
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You can definitely pass and then jump back into play as long as there has not been three passes in a row. Once there are three passes in a row, the trick is over.

Example:

Amy plays. Bob passes. Carl plays. Diana passes.
Amy passes. Bob now plays. Carl plays. Diana plays.
Amy passes, Bob passes, Carl passes.
Diana takes the trick as there has been three passes in a row.

And remember that bombs can be played at ANY time. So just before Diana takes the trick (in the above example) someone else could say "stop" and then bomb the trick just before she is about to take the cards.

Note: You have to give everyone a chance to overbomb before you take the trick with a bomb.

And remember that the Dog is not considered a trick. Once it is played, NOTHING can interrupt it.

===
As for calling Tichu, you can wait as long as you want before calling it as long as you haven't played a card yet.

I've held on to all of my cards and waited until the other team has played most of their cards before calling Tichu. Totally legal and can be strategic --- if I have only long runs and full houses left and the other team has three cards each, they won't be able to play at all. It's a fun way to play.



gamesgocrazy wrote:
If you pass, you can play a card later. This is helpful if your partner has the trick you can pass, but if your opponents are leading it, you can jump back in if possible.

Everyone else can have played a card, but if you have not played a card yet, you can call a tichu.


troy4u wrote:
When I played with friends, if someone passes, they are not allowed to play that round.

I just tried this game online and it seems like it's ok to play in a round you passed. Is that right?

Another rule that I got confused is, "you can call tichu as long as you haven't played YOUR first card". Does that mean everyone can play their first card and I can call tichu after seeing everyone's cards?
 
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