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Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game» Forums » Strategy

Subject: The Tie Advanced. What it is good for. rss

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evil_wins Solo
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There is an always present trend in this kind of games. Whenever a new expansion comes out, it outshines the previous expansions so much that you don't ever consider using them again. Knowing this, it seems a crazy idea to defend the Tie Advanced now that we are well past Wave 3 and going to wave 4. What is it left for the old Tie Advanced?

To begin I'll start with the basic premise we all knew back in the days of Wave 1: Vader is the only pilot you'd ever consider putting on a Tie Advanced. The other pilots are so overpriced that they are a waste of sacred imperial budget.

So, I've found three things that Vader can do better than any ship in the imperial selection:

1. Firing missiles: Vader alone can fire a concussion missile using focus and have one of the best damage outcomes in the game. If you think your dice hate you, you should consider using him. If you manage to be at range 3, that will give you one extra dice for the defense in case they want to shoot you back (in which case it is not a disadvantage and you'll see why).

2. The best tank worth the least points: Vader can soak damage like a pro. The only Tie with shields so far, it defends with 3 dice and is able to do an evade+ focus each turn. That is effectively one hit point for each round you manage to do this action and someone attacks you. In this article they explain it better

http://teamcovenant.com/theorist/2013/10/30/side-by-side-x-w....

3. Chasing the YT 1300: No imperial capitain is happy when they see the millenium falcon coming. Specially the HSF build, with his amazing 1-90 degree turn and evade action with push the limit. That gunner takes your ties appart and there is little you can do to stop it. Your ties keep coming and going trying to do some damage, but they always run past the dreaded ship and are forced to koiogran, which leaves them so vulnerable that Han can´t help but laugh while destroing Tie after Tie. Here is where Vader does his Job. There are not many small imperial ships with the one straight or bank manoever (only the tie bomber has both). The tie advanced has the one bank, and if the falcon pilot knows some manoevers you can always barrel roll and keep on with the chase at range 1. Vader does this better than the bomber because of the reason mentioned in #2. Bombers simply cannot resist a lot of damage from the YT, and Vader will buy you enough time for your other ties to koigran and fire more effectively... Also remember that low AGI ships HATE concussion missiles.

So, this is it. To sum up I'll say that Vader is an effective counter to the YT build. It is one of the few Ties who can continually chase the YT at range 1, fire missiles at it and be able to soak damage protecting other fellow Ties. With all that in mind I'll leave you with a build I made. Try it and see how effective it is against the YT.

1. Vader+Concussion Missiles+ Veteran instincts (Han not shooting first).
2. Howlrunner.
3. Academy pilot x 4.

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Nick Sibicky

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I agree with most of what you say here, but the reality is that even Vader with his awesome ability is overpriced by a point!
 
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Jeffrey
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Throwing Vader into a list isn't anything new is it? He's the one Advanced pilot people agree can be fit into competitive lists.

After he gets off that one missile, what does he really contribute to a swarm with this build? Fast forward to the end of the first round of combat. The game state is about the same as if it were the end of the second round of combat against a more traditional swarm (assuming the missile has been fired). In one round of combat Han has taken as much damage as if he'd been in two rounds of combat with a traditional swarm, there is one fewer academy on the board than in a traditional swarm (the equivalent of one being shot down), and instead of a Mauler Mithel or Dark Curse out there, you have Vader.

Granted, Vader is more desirable than one of those other pilots, but you are still a swarm vs HSF. A good player won't target Vader if he is focus + evading.

If I were putting Vader in a squad built to take on HSF, it'd be with three Bombers (though some combo of Xs and Bs would still work better I think).
 
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tom brown
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I have to say I really like maarek stele with cluster missiles.
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Waspinator
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This game has actually resisted power creep pretty well. People still like TIE swarms and X-Wings.
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Michael Ptak
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And even those lists have effective counters. Granted, those lists might seem over specialized next to the general come-all lists of the Swarms and 4X...

The TIE Advanced needs something, though. I've never seen this ship hit the table using anybody but Vader. The resiliency is tough, but the attack power just doesn't do it for me. Missiles also drive up the price more than actually be anything useful.
 
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Jeff Dunford
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Points 1 and 2 aren't even true anymore. Rhymer with PtL and missiles is generally better than Vader. And a Bounty Hunter is a much better tank, although it costs 4 points more than a naked Vader.
 
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Chris G
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After spending probably 7 turns chasing a lone Vadar with Chewie and a B-wing around the board. I can attest that Vadar can be a pain in the ass to shoot down. Hit for 3, evade for 3 rinse repeat...
 
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James Saeli
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I've had good luck with this exact list, but instead of swarming using pincer maneuvers. Vader is invariably the target of choice, freeing the other three TIEs (and Vader's two wingmen) to attack at will.
 
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evil_wins Solo
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iNano78 wrote:
Points 1 and 2 aren't even true anymore. Rhymer with PtL and missiles is generally better than Vader. And a Bounty Hunter is a much better tank, although it costs 4 points more than a naked Vader.


Mmm i guess I can't argue with that. Changing vader for bounty hunter seems to be even a better counter to the YT.
 
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Robert M.
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"...absolutely nothing! Say it again, y'all." whistle

But as a couple of people have noted above, this isn't a power-creep issue, but rather an underlying design issue. I think FFG initially underestimated the marginal change in power between 2 Attack and 3 Attack, and possibly overestimated the effectiveness of missiles as well. The TIE Fighter is cheap enough to be fairly cost-effective anyway, and has Howlrunner to smooth things out, but the TIE Advanced just doesn't punch hard enough to play in the 21-point weight class.

And yes, Vader is still great.
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Firstname Lastname
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I think if we take Vader and the other TIEadv as separate ships, there really IS no reason to play the TIEadv whatsoever
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I like Maarek Stele. I think it's cool that they gave us the pilot from Tie Fighter. I like flying him just because I can. That's reason enough.

I don't play in tournaments, I play casual. That's the best part about this game, you can play it how you want.
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Firstname Lastname
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I did consider switching the TIEbomber into the TIEadvanced in my standard jonus 4 bomber build, but when you are trading a Scimitar + Assault into a Tempest for the exact same 21 points, it sorta defeats the purpose; In exchange for a much more maneuverable and capable dogfighter, I have to lose a 5 point missile per ship I upgrade. Not to mention I have to lose the green forward 1 maneuver also

maybe simply changing 1 of them will do? hmm....
 
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Grish
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Vorpal Sword wrote:


...this isn't a power-creep issue, but rather an underlying design issue. I think FFG initially underestimated the marginal change in power between 2 Attack and 3 Attack, and possibly overestimated the effectiveness of missiles as well.

And yes, Vader is still great.



Totally agree on all counts.



 
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James Motz
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I always thought the sad part of the TIE Advanced was that it didn't boost, and adding the Engine modification meant it couldn't add anything else.

Therefore I propose the Unique TIE Advanced Title "TIE Advanced Mark II" which is four points and gives your action bar the Boost icon.

Now Darth Vader can add that title, AND the stealth (or shield) mod. And of course the Daredevil pilot talent.

The return of Dare Vader!!!!
 
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Chris L
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Well, they seem to be "fixing" A-wings now, so maybe there's some hope that they'll fix Advanced?

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=4705
 
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Dan
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igelkott255 wrote:
Well, they seem to be "fixing" A-wings now, so maybe there's some hope that they'll fix Advanced?

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=4705
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Waspinator
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While the negative point missile is kind of weird, it does seem like a decent way to revise the cost of a ship. Now we just need one for TIE Advanced.
 
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JF Roy
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OmegaDolphin wrote:
I like Maarek Stele. I think it's cool that they gave us the pilot from Tie Fighter. I like flying him just because I can. That's reason enough.

I don't play in tournaments, I play casual. That's the best part about this game, you can play it how you want.


Everyone who's played the Tie-Fighter game knows Maarek Stele belongs in an Assault Gunboat. Hopefuly, FFG will give it to us in wave 5 (or maybe wave 23?!).

That being said, I like fielding him my games. His ability is nice enough. Being able to choose the crit between 3 cards is good. I like it against Falcons lists. But it means you have to hold on to your missiles until the Falcons' shields are gone.

Wich means plenty of time to get vaped before those missiles get fired.

Wich is another way to say, I guess, that Maarek Stele is useless."Sigh"
 
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Bob Duclos
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wieftre wrote:
Everyone who's played the Tie-Fighter game knows Maarek Stele belongs in an Assault Gunboat.


Am I the only one who HATED the gunboat? That offing mission where you had to kill a couple of each rebel fighters with it. Took me so long to get those dang A-Wings. WHO MATCHES GUNBOATS AGAINST A-WINGS?!?!
 
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Michael Ptak
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Technically Stele belongs in a TIE Avenger, which is the fighter he is most identified with.

Stele would be more useful if his ability triggered more often, which I don't think happens as much as it should. It comes from either your one-shot missiles or the one crit you're likely to get out of a 2-dice shots

I never had a problem with assault gunboats- except when flying against them. You know how hard it is in one of the final X-Wing missions when they're constantly throwing concussion missiles at your X-Wing?
 
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