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Subject: Any magicians....(Now with shuffle video) rss

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Ryan King
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Are there any amateur/professional magicians lurking here?

If so....does it drive you insane that no one knows how to properly riffle shuffle without bridging/bending the cards? I rarely dabble in card magic anymore, but most of it was very habit forming. Wouldn't it be nice to spread this particular habit around. It would be helpful to people and their games.

Sometimes I will see players try to emulate my shuffle and, without any direction, have a hard time doing it. I tried hunting down a youtube video instruction, but couldn't find anything useful. I'm tempted to post one here, but I only have an ipad and would be hard to get a good angle working alone. Another possibility would be to retype instructions from a book, which I would be willing to do, as well.

With sleeves, most can just faro the cards into each other, but people without are having to either bend the cards to shuffle or do some type of overhand/slop shuffle, which for games like netrunner are not REALLY breaking up those combos.

Does anyone have a good resource for proper shuffling they can share?
 
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B. L.
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Re: Any magicians....
Maybe not what you're looking for but I use a standard poker shuffle. There are a few videos that take you step by step through the process. Also if you do the riffle shuffle with only the corner of the cards and then square them up, its a lot better for the cards.
 
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Ryan King
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Re: Any magicians....
Yea, I could have added "casino dealers" to this as well. Couldn't find a good tutorial, though.
 
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Jeffrey Smith
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Re: Any magicians....
I did a YouTube search and found a couple videos. One was called "rifle shuffle Magic:The Gathering cards"
 
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Ryan King
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Re: Any magicians....
That one does the same bending, just long-wise. Did eliminate the bridge, at least.
 
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Jacovis
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Re: Any magicians....
Proper bridging doesn't bend the cards out of shape. The very act should release the tension back into a flat or near-flat shape, unless you're dealing with poorly manufactured cards. In fact, NOT bridging tends to cause the cards to retain a bend if you're riffle shuffling.

Casino dealers tend to use the "Poker Shuffle," which is hardly the only "proper" way to shuffle cards, just another way.

Just a minor nitpick, but since you combined bridging and bending I felt that ought to be clarified.

Edit to add:

Poker Shuffle



Riffle Shuffle

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Ryan King
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Re: Any magicians....
Bridging is fixing one stress with another stress, where no stress should be used at all.

EDIT: That first video is good, although he is obviously over exaggerating the bend. You can do it with almost zero bending of the cards. But yeah, that is the general technique. To eliminate the bending, you softly lay your fingers on top of each half deck and your thumbs can easily lift the sides. After some practice, they should slip of your thumb and interlace. Hard to do without properly written instructions or video. Most of the videos I found do the above: they follow the general form, but still focus on riffling the card corners using extreme stress instead of lifting them and having them slide off the thumb.

 
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Jacovis
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Re: Any magicians....
ryanking wrote:
Bridging is fixing one stress with another stress, where no stress should be used at all.


They're cards. They're designed to be stressed, especially the LCG cards. If you don't want to stress, then buy sleeves. Otherwise, you're going to stress them somewhere somehow.

ETA: By stress I also include weakening of edges from jamming cards together, bends that will occur from pooling cards and mixing them together in a swirl on a table, potential edge-nicking if you do a quick slide slip shuffle. The only way to totally protect your cards and get a close-to-shuffle-shuffle is to buy sleeves.
 
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Ryan King
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Re: Any magicians....
Yes yes games are meant to be played, cars bent, and so on. Many people try to shuffle in a better way, this is just to help. I would like to not get into anything more in this thread
 
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Russ Williams
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Re: Any magicians....
Jacovis wrote:
The only way to totally protect your cards and get a close-to-shuffle-shuffle is to buy sleeves.

What about pile shuffle (dealing them out into multiple various piles) and then stacking the piles together? (Combined with some simple overhand shuffling/cutting before and after the pile shuffle.)

That is very undamaging in my experience. (But admittedly has the drawback of taking longer.)
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Ryan King
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Re: Any magicians....
Yeah, that works, but table shuffling is so much faster and can be done un-sleeved or sleeved (even with premium FFG sleeves). The pile method would not work with games like Dominion or others that demand a ton of shuffling. For a one time shuffle, it's fine

The idea isn't to eliminate wear, but to reduce it using a superior method that people can pick up in a couple days. There seems to be a lot of misinformation like "you can't riffle with sleeves" etc, yet you can easily table shuffle thick GMT cards with FFG sleeves on with minimal bending and certainly no bridging! Some people don't care, but I think a lot do and would gladly shuffle better if they knew how.
 
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Imtiaz
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Re: Any magicians....
Ryan, can you do a small demonstration for us, even if with just a webcam in 5 seconds? I'm genuinely interested. Can't imagine how a riffle shuffle can be done without bending the cards; but if there's a way that would be tremendously useful.
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Russ Williams
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Re: Any magicians....
Indeed I'd be happy to do that poker/thumb shuffle competently, but when I try it without bending the cards, they fall in a few large clumps of many cards at a time instead of falling in many clumps of small numbers of cards at a time, and so the randomization is very poor.
 
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Joe Salamone
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Re: Any magicians....
I went through a magic phase a few years ago. I think I have between $5,000 and $7,000 worth of magic supplies at my house (including DVDs on shuffling - - actually false shuffling - - techniques). Hey, wait a second . . . I hope you don't use false shuffles when you play board games!
 
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M C
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Re: Any magicians....
sine_square_x wrote:
Ryan, can you do a small demonstration for us, even if with just a webcam in 5 seconds? I'm genuinely interested. Can't imagine how a riffle shuffle can be done without bending the cards; but if there's a way that would be tremendously useful.


Agreed. If there are no good Youtube videos, then make one.

There is an interesting article on randomization with different shuffles.

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Kevin C.
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Re: Any magicians....
Quote:
The pile method would not work with games like Dominion or others that demand a ton of shuffling. For a one time shuffle, it's fine


Why don't you think it would work?

I only pile shuffle/overhand in pretty much every card game I play...including Dominion. I've got hundreds of games of that under my belt, along with tons of Thunderstone, Ascension, etc.

I've done it in tournament and formal settings and it hasn't been an issue. I see others do it also. Indeed, in my experience, pile shuffling is pretty common in deckbuilders.

I find pile shuffling to be not only quick, but relaxing.

Kevin
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Russ Williams
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Re: Any magicians....
natsean wrote:
Quote:
The pile method would not work with games like Dominion or others that demand a ton of shuffling. For a one time shuffle, it's fine


Why don't you think it would work?

I only pile shuffle/overhand in pretty much every card game I play...including Dominion.

Me too; I guess he and his group are more impatient than you and I are while waiting for the shuffling...
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J K
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Re: Any magicians....
It is funny how many different schools of thought there are for everything. I used to perform close up magic and would always over exaggerate any bend of the card for the aesthetics of it. A lot of flourishes and in the hand spread/fans would also bend the cards. I usually would use a different deck of cards each day. For those reasons alone I still find myself over doing it with shuffling and find myself turning the deck over and shuffling again to try and reverse the damage
 
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Russ Williams
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Re: Any magicians....
GrayDaddy wrote:
It is funny how many different schools of thought there are for everything. I used to perform close up magic and would always over exaggerate any bend of the card for the aesthetics of it. A lot of flourishes and in the hand spread/fans would also bend the cards. I usually would use a different deck of cards each day.

Well, yeah, it's a lot cheaper to buy a new deck of ordinary playing cards each day than a new deck for Combat Commander: Europe and other such games!
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Joe Salamone
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Re: Any magicians....
russ wrote:
GrayDaddy wrote:
It is funny how many different schools of thought there are for everything. I used to perform close up magic and would always over exaggerate any bend of the card for the aesthetics of it. A lot of flourishes and in the hand spread/fans would also bend the cards. I usually would use a different deck of cards each day.

Well, yeah, it's a lot cheaper to buy a new deck of ordinary playing cards each day than a new deck for Combat Commander: Europe and other such games!


But some decks of magic cards can cost $20, $30 . . . up to $100 or more . . .
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Ryan King
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Re: Any magicians....
I'll make a vid today, no problem.

EDIT: its made, but taking forever to put on youtube via wireless. Will post when it's done.
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Tony Go
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Re: Any magicians....
I am magic.

I shuffle doing a drop riffle.
 
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Joe Salamone
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Re: Any magicians....
When setting up a game, I think it's fun to false shuffle the deck several times and keep showing that the card on top is always the same. Then I tell the group, "Okay, I'll shuffle it for real this time" and look around to see everyone's facial expressions. Do they believe me . . . or do they think I will cheat?
 
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Brian A
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Re: Any magicians....
I'm no magician, but I feel your pain. I can't imagine any game owner likes to see cards (especially ones that I own) get overflexed/bent.

Looking forward to your instructional video for sure!
 
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Bryan Thunkd
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Re: Any magicians....
I'm a magician of sorts... I have a really cool disappearing act. Bend my cards and you'll never see another one of 'em.
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