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Subject: Getting this off my chest, then I'll behave... rss

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Drake Coker
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Got my copy today, yay! Looks pretty cool. I guess I'm getting more stuff later, though what and when is not at all clear to me. But pressing on...

I got everything organized and picked up a card to start perusing. I picked up "To the Knee". It reads:

Quote:
(Optional - Ammo) Target is Prone
Effects Captains and Minions


My immediate thoughts:

a. Good joke in the title
b. No, sorry, the target is not prone. Perhaps you mean "Target becomes Prone"?
c. Effects? What effects? Perhaps you mean "Affects Captains and Minions".

After looking at a few more cards and reading about half the rules, I have to wonder... for the amount of money you raised, couldn't you hire an editor?

I don't much mind the missing or ambiguous rules. Those are easy to fix post-production. But so many card errors / ambiguities is just sad.

Ok, rant off. Looks like it will be fun.
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Raphael Pigulla
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Thank you for starting another thread for this, we were running out of space in the other ones. I've always feared the day the internet was full.
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Seba J
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n3rd wrote:
Thank you for starting another thread for this,


wow, you're unfriendly.

instead of kidding Drake, you could have pointed him to another thread where these discussions take place.

you know, the bgg forum search engine sucks, and with so many new myth threads coming up every day, it can be hard to find the one you should have posted in.
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Justin Colm
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Olvenskol wrote:
Got my copy today, yay! Looks pretty cool. I guess I'm getting more stuff later, though what and when is not at all clear to me.


So, why don't you take a look at the Kickstarter page. And then you'd know.
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Zach Moir
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I commented on the rule book in the kickstarter comments after they posted the final version. I mentioned the incorrect usage of "effect" for the context they are intending and I was told it was an "editing decision" to use effect instead of affect.

Interesting.
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Chris Byer
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Olvenskol wrote:
Got my copy today, yay! Looks pretty cool. I guess I'm getting more stuff later, though what and when is not at all clear to me. But pressing on...

I got everything organized and picked up a card to start perusing. I picked up "To the Knee". It reads:

Quote:
(Optional - Ammo) Target is Prone
Effects Captains and Minions


My immediate thoughts:

a. Good joke in the title
b. No, sorry, the target is not prone. Perhaps you mean "Target becomes Prone"?
c. Effects? What effects? Perhaps you mean "Affects Captains and Minions".

After looking at a few more cards and reading about half the rules, I have to wonder... for the amount of money you raised, couldn't you hire an editor?

I don't much mind the missing or ambiguous rules. Those are easy to fix post-production. But so many card errors / ambiguities is just sad.

Ok, rant off. Looks like it will be fun.


I felt the exact same.

zachmoir wrote:
I commented on the rule book in the kickstarter comments after they posted the final version. I mentioned the incorrect usage of "effect" for the context they are intending and I was told it was an "editing decision" to use effect instead of affect.

Interesting.

Editing decision? It's the English language! Granted most people couldn't tell you the difference between the two but come on. shake
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Jonah Rees
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Was the editing decision not to use an editor?
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JR Wr
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jonahmaul wrote:
Was the editing decision not to use an editor?


Can't help but picture Kelso yelling BURN!
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Jon Bowker
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jonahmaul wrote:
Was the editing decision not to use an editor?

My thought exactly. What editor would purposely use bad grammar if not being cheeky with a hidden meaning or alternate spelling for thematic purposes. Let's hope that's the case and we just haven't found it yet. If it isn't, I hope the entire game isn't riddled with "editing decisions."
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JR Wr
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proclaimed wrote:
jonahmaul wrote:
Was the editing decision not to use an editor?

My thought exactly. What editor would purposely use bad grammar if not being cheeky with a hidden meaning or alternate spelling for thematic purposes. Let's hope that's the case and we just haven't found it yet. If it isn't, I hope the entire game isn't riddled with "editing decisions."


I'm getting the impression more and more that the rules and cards were passed to another company / group to proof read, play, and adjust.
And that that group dropped the ball and told Mercs that all was good.
And Mercs excepted (purposeful) what they were told and printed it?

I'm still wanting to know, the people that play tested and proof read it, were they taught it from Mercs or given the game and cards blind to try it out?

Undead viking did a video, and got many rules wrong iirc.
Wonder why he didn't see the type errors?
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William Cunningham
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Typos are, let's face it, the least of the game's problems. And to be fair, even the largest of companies issue stuff with typos. I'm not going to sweat the correct usage of Affect/Effect when there are much larger issues at hand.

That being said, a revised rulebook should be able to address 90 percent of my issues with this game and bring it to a level of playability I expected out of the box.

There really is a fun game here. I've got a couple of great solo games out of it so far. So this is not meant as a slam, but rather as constructive criticism. And I think that the designers are listening and have started taking steps towards resolving this.
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Drake Coker
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n3rd wrote:
Thank you for starting another thread for this, we were running out of space in the other ones. I've always feared the day the internet was full.


You are most welcome!
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Drake Coker
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High Flying Bird wrote:
Olvenskol wrote:
Got my copy today, yay! Looks pretty cool. I guess I'm getting more stuff later, though what and when is not at all clear to me.


So, why don't you take a look at the Kickstarter page. And then you'd know.


Thanks, good idea! Update #97 mentions what I received in what I guess is "wave 1". As it turns out, this is not terribly helpful today since I already know what I received. I did look at the web page and casually searched for "wave 2" here before posting.

As for your question: with 52 Kickstarter projects backed, I find the daily updates don't leave much of a lasting impression with me and I just assume the corresponding web sites will have the key information when I need to find it. Admittedly, this is an optimistic assumption
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John Austin
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Are all these issues going to be fixed in the retail version of the game?
 
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Jason Vany
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As I understand it, the second shipment should have everything else that you had pledged for and added on during the campaign. For those who are international everything that was pledged/added on at once.

Either way I am excited to play the game and by the prospect of the large box full of stuff arriving at my door. The other part of me is intimidated by the sheer number of minis that I will be looking to paint. Zombicide was one thing, but this is an entirely new monster coming to my doorstep haha
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Joshua Russell
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Olvenskol wrote:
Got my copy today, yay! Looks pretty cool. I guess I'm getting more stuff later, though what and when is not at all clear to me. But pressing on...

I got everything organized and picked up a card to start perusing. I picked up "To the Knee". It reads:

Quote:
(Optional - Ammo) Target is Prone
Effects Captains and Minions


My immediate thoughts:

a. Good joke in the title
b. No, sorry, the target is not prone. Perhaps you mean "Target becomes Prone"?
c. Effects? What effects? Perhaps you mean "Affects Captains and Minions".

After looking at a few more cards and reading about half the rules, I have to wonder... for the amount of money you raised, couldn't you hire an editor?

I don't much mind the missing or ambiguous rules. Those are easy to fix post-production. But so many card errors / ambiguities is just sad.

Ok, rant off. Looks like it will be fun.

Unfortunately a lot if cards, if not most, are like this. The optional part doesn't even make a lot of sense to me. Can I choose not to use my ammo? And if so, why would I want to use my ammo?
 
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Adam Canning
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joshuar56 wrote:

Unfortunately a lot if cards, if not most, are like this. The optional part doesn't even make a lot of sense to me. Can I choose not to use my ammo? And if so, why would I want to use my ammo?


Other way round. It can be used with a weapon that requires the use of ammo [Bows], but can be used with a weapon that doesn't require ammo.

If it said Requires: Ammo it could only be used with a bow [Like Through the needle's eye].

c.f. p5 of the Hero Deck Reference.

Likewise Pincushion can be chained after a Circumvent as a single reaction and Tumble doesn't require you to make an attack but requires Ammo if you make a ranged attack with it.

Orion's Tears, Fool's Errand, Kharon's Payment, Wayfarer's Ruse, Through a Needle’s Eye and Gift of the Underworld all require Ammo and so can only be done with a ranged weapon.
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Mike Miller

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joshuar56 wrote:
Olvenskol wrote:
Got my copy today, yay! Looks pretty cool. I guess I'm getting more stuff later, though what and when is not at all clear to me. But pressing on...

I got everything organized and picked up a card to start perusing. I picked up "To the Knee". It reads:

Quote:
(Optional - Ammo) Target is Prone
Effects Captains and Minions


My immediate thoughts:

a. Good joke in the title
b. No, sorry, the target is not prone. Perhaps you mean "Target becomes Prone"?
c. Effects? What effects? Perhaps you mean "Affects Captains and Minions".

After looking at a few more cards and reading about half the rules, I have to wonder... for the amount of money you raised, couldn't you hire an editor?

I don't much mind the missing or ambiguous rules. Those are easy to fix post-production. But so many card errors / ambiguities is just sad.

Ok, rant off. Looks like it will be fun.

Unfortunately a lot if cards, if not most, are like this. The optional part doesn't even make a lot of sense to me. Can I choose not to use my ammo? And if so, why would I want to use my ammo?


We had to read into that one quite a bit, but we came to the conclusion that it probably meant for adjacent enemies, no, you do not have to use ammo.
The answer above mine makes more sense.
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Joshua Russell
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dahak wrote:
joshuar56 wrote:

Unfortunately a lot if cards, if not most, are like this. The optional part doesn't even make a lot of sense to me. Can I choose not to use my ammo? And if so, why would I want to use my ammo?


Other way round. It can be used with a weapon that requires the use of ammo [Bows], but can be used with a weapon that doesn't require ammo.

If it said Requires: Ammo it could only be used with a bow [Like Through the needle's eye].

c.f. p5 of the Hero Deck Reference.


Does this mean that if the brigand is in Shadows, any attack he tries to perform either has to be "optional shadow" or "require shadow"?
 
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joshuar56 wrote:
dahak wrote:
joshuar56 wrote:

Unfortunately a lot if cards, if not most, are like this. The optional part doesn't even make a lot of sense to me. Can I choose not to use my ammo? And if so, why would I want to use my ammo?


Other way round. It can be used with a weapon that requires the use of ammo [Bows], but can be used with a weapon that doesn't require ammo.

If it said Requires: Ammo it could only be used with a bow [Like Through the needle's eye].

c.f. p5 of the Hero Deck Reference.


Does this mean that if the brigand is in Shadows, any attack he tries to perform either has to be "optional shadow" or "require shadow"?


No. Same as if the Archer has Ammo he doesn't have to make a ranged attack. He can't do Requires Shadows without being in Shadow and he gets bonuses for being in Shadow for Optional Shadow actions.

You don't get the bonus for being in Shadows for making attacks that aren't Optional or Requires Shadows. Dirty Tactics doesn't benefit for example.

Shadows is lost however on making a successful attack unless the attack card says otherwise. Shadows Reach is a partial exception since you can chain a requires Shadows Reach after it and still get the Shadows bonus.

The Bonus for having Ammo is being able to make ranged attacks. The Bonus for Shadows is +2FD on any Optional or Requires Shadows Card (plus other bonuses involving extra movement, damage or dice depending on card).

Out of Shadows you can do a Shadows reach attack for 2 damage range 1. In Shadows you get to move 3 first without it counting as a move.
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Skolo
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so, is WAVE 2 coming with rules 2.0 rulebook or what?
 
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Jonah Rees
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skolo wrote:
so, is WAVE 2 coming with rules 2.0 rulebook or what?


Almost certainly not. The Wave 2 stuff should be on its way soon so they don't have time to correct all the mistakes and get new rulebooks printed. I suspect we will get FAQs and eventually a digitally released version 2.0.
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Joshua Russell
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dahak wrote:
joshuar56 wrote:
dahak wrote:
joshuar56 wrote:

Unfortunately a lot if cards, if not most, are like this. The optional part doesn't even make a lot of sense to me. Can I choose not to use my ammo? And if so, why would I want to use my ammo?


Other way round. It can be used with a weapon that requires the use of ammo [Bows], but can be used with a weapon that doesn't require ammo.

If it said Requires: Ammo it could only be used with a bow [Like Through the needle's eye].

c.f. p5 of the Hero Deck Reference.


Does this mean that if the brigand is in Shadows, any attack he tries to perform either has to be "optional shadow" or "require shadow"?


No. Same as if the Archer has Ammo he doesn't have to make a ranged attack. He can't do Requires Shadows without being in Shadow and he gets bonuses for being in Shadow for Optional Shadow actions.

You don't get the bonus for being in Shadows for making attacks that aren't Optional or Requires Shadows. Dirty Tactics doesn't benefit for example.

Shadows is lost however on making a successful attack unless the attack card says otherwise. Shadows Reach is a partial exception since you can chain a requires Shadows Reach after it and still get the Shadows bonus.

The Bonus for having Ammo is being able to make ranged attacks. The Bonus for Shadows is +2FD on any Optional or Requires Shadows Card (plus other bonuses involving extra movement, damage or dice depending on card).

Out of Shadows you can do a Shadows reach attack for 2 damage range 1. In Shadows you get to move 3 first without it counting as a move.
shadows reach has "optional shadows" but is no different ( gets no bonuses) if you're in shadows or not. So what's the point of it having "optional shadows"if you can make any attack regardless if you are in shadows?
 
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Arthur Peterson
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An editing decision? If that's true, I'm dropkicking this game.
 
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Adam Canning
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joshuar56 wrote:
shadows reach has "optional shadows" but is no different ( gets no bonuses) if you're in shadows or not. So what's the point of it having "optional shadows"if you can make any attack regardless if you are in shadows?


+2 Fate Dice on the attack roll and chain Shadows on to one of the Requires Shadows, Optional Shadows Reach abilities.
 
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