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Subject: Coolest Base in the Game rss

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Travis Vandenberg
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This expansion comes with (in my opinion) the coolest base in all of Smash Up.

The Portal Room (22 power, 1st gets 2 VP, 2nd gets 3 VP, 3rd gets 1 VP)
"The winner takes an extra turn after the current turn ends."

Normally if you get screwed over by a Terraform to Ninja Dojo or Temple of Goju, you get a lame consolation prize. However, an extra turn is amazing! If you're the next person up, you could have two turns in a row. I was wondering why no faction had an "extra turn" action card when I realized the Time Travelers sort of do: Time Walk ("play an extra action, extra minion, and draw 2 cards"). It's like having an extra turn without the messiness that comes with end of turn or beginning of turn abilities.

Another contender for coolest base goes to...

Secret Volcano Headquarters (18 power, 1st gets 4 VP, 2nd 3VP, 3rd 2VP)
"Before this base scores, all players reveal the top card of their decks. Play all revealed minions here."

This one is a genius idea that really randomizes the end result. However, it seems unclear to me whether specials need to be played before this effect takes place or whether they can be played afterward.

Honorable mention to Innsmouth for screwing over discard pile-related factions

Are there any bases that you just love, whether from this expansion or previous ones?
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aiyah brazzle
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Personally, I love:
Homeworld- fun to rush, and if you're Aliens you can Invader spam like crazy
Field of Honor & Cave of Shinies- fun to spam kills for points

Bases that I don't necessarily "love", but will absolutely go for right away:
Tar Pits- low breakpoint, high payoff, screws over zombies.
Tortuga- high payoff, moderate breakpoint, low risk.
Haunted House- low breakpoint, other players reluctant to play there. (this base is great for Steampunks, put a Zepp there and move your minions; you won't have to discard)
Central Brain- You will only have one chance to play here, dump as much power as you can, hope for the best.

Bases that I hate when they're out on the board:
Mushroom Kingdom- all your hard work on other bases will be messed up.
Plaza Mall- I'm always reluctant to play there or seem to get stuck with factions that can't rush, so this base never seems to benefit me enough. If I'm playing as Aliens I'll put 'Jammed Signal' on it when it's about to break.
Factory 1337- It's a sucker base. Rarely will the winner earn more than 4 points (although, I have seen it earn 7)
Both Plant bases- breakpoint too high, VP too low.
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Time walk... now where have I heard that card name before? Sounds so familiar, I seem to remember it involving an extra turn and a Tolarian Academy.

WhatAChamp wrote:

Secret Volcano Headquarters (18 power, 1st gets 4 VP, 2nd 3VP, 3rd 2VP)
"Before this base scores, all players reveal the top card of their decks. Play all revealed minions here."

This one is a genius idea that really randomizes the end result. However, it seems unclear to me whether specials need to be played before this effect takes place or whether they can be played afterward.


I think the ruling would be as follows:
The active player is pretty much in control of when the base ability occurs. It gets confusing though because of the pass system for playing specials. Technically, the active player is no longer in control of "same-time" actions because the rules make it clear that they pass for the next person. The rules also say to resolve the base ability after it scores... which makes absolutely no sense for this base because it does not appear to be the intended result (why would you want to break base where everyone potentially waste a minion for nothing).

I have a question.... let's say a player reveals a zapbot. Do they get to play more minions?
 
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Travis Vandenberg
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aiyah702 wrote:
Both Plant bases- breakpoint too high, VP too low.


The one plant base where you get to search your deck for any minion to play on the base that replaces it is great as Aliens and can be a pretty awesome reward as other factions too if you play your cards right.

darkNES386 wrote:
I have a question.... let's say a player reveals a zapbot. Do they get to play more minions?


The way that I play is that you do not since the extra minions are not playable as special minions. I argue the same thing for Spies' Mole ability with Summon. However, I have seen it ruled that it's alright for you to play another minion. I just believe that since it's not the phase where you can play minions (only specials) you shouldn't be able to play another minion.

In regards to when the base ability applies, I would have no problem with having the ability happen after specials. It leaves that element of randomness and seems like the most logical time (as a last resort). I would assume that the order of play for the minions starts with the player whose turn it is and goes clockwise from there because simultaneous playing of minions doesn't really work.
 
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Alfred Spangler
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WhatAChamp wrote:


darkNES386 wrote:
I have a question.... let's say a player reveals a zapbot. Do they get to play more minions?


The way that I play is that you do not since the extra minions are not playable as special minions. I argue the same thing for Spies' Mole ability with Summon. However, I have seen it ruled that it's alright for you to play another minion. I just believe that since it's not the phase where you can play minions (only specials) you shouldn't be able to play another minion.


No, I think it's definitely ok to play more zapbots. Don't the rules say if the card contradicts the rules, go with the card? Using the above reasoning, you could argue that a zapbot NEVER spawns more minions - after all, normally it would be during that time of the turn when you can play ONE minion.
 
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Alfred Spangler
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WhatAChamp wrote:
The Portal Room (22 power, 1st gets 2 VP, 2nd gets 3 VP, 3rd gets 1 VP)
"The winner takes an extra turn after the current turn ends."


Supposing the winner isn't the active winner, when does that extra turn happen?

The card makes it sound like it's immediately after the base breaks, so you might not have two consecutive turns. I might go - Base Breaker, Base Winner (extra turn), Other Player, Base Winner.
 
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Travis Vandenberg
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mynameistopher wrote:


Supposing the winner isn't the active winner, when does that extra turn happen?

The card makes it sound like it's immediately after the base breaks, so you might not have two consecutive turns. I might go - Base Breaker, Base Winner (extra turn), Other Player, Base Winner.


WhatAChamp wrote:
If you're the next person up, you could have two turns in a row.


Note that I didn't say you would always have two consecutive turns. I only said that was the case if you were the next person up. My assumption is that an EXTRA turn implies that you get a turn and then it goes back to the regular order. So if you were the next person up you would get two turns in a row.

mynameistopher wrote:
No, I think it's definitely ok to play more zapbots. Don't the rules say if the card contradicts the rules, go with the card? Using the above reasoning, you could argue that a zapbot NEVER spawns more minions - after all, normally it would be during that time of the turn when you can play ONE minion.


I'm not sure what to make of this but this doesn't sit right with me. I feel that you would need to have some sort of designation (i.e Special) to be able to do this. Otherwise you could break the rules of the game by playing any card during a Specials phase. I understand that the Zapbot says to play an extra minion and I understand that Summon says to play an extra minion but those extra minions do not have a Special designation so I can't see that making sense. It seems like playing that way makes the base scoring phase a regular mini-phase where players all can play 0 actions and 0 minions unless they get Specials that enhance their number of actions or minions. On the other hand, I see the base scoring phase as a special phase where only cards with the Special designation can be played.

I don't like the reasoning that the card contradicts the rules with regards to specials. If the card stated that an extra minion could be played at any time then I would agree with that but it just says that an extra minion could be played. That leads me to believe that it should lie within the regular confines of when a normal minion could be played. Otherwise you could argue that you could play the extra minion during someone else's turn. A similar argument might arise regarding Bacta the Future (destroy a minion, that minion's owner can immediately play an extra minion) where you could combo a whole string of minions on your opponent's turn. The card only specifies that you get to play the one minion immediately. You don't get your own mini-turn where you can give yourself more actions and minions.

Again, I will admit that I have seen people claim the opposite to what I am saying on the forums. I am by no means saying that I am certain about my ruling, just that it makes the most sense to me. If you can link a thread where a developer claims otherwise, I will start playing by those rules.
 
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Ryan Post
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WhatAChamp wrote:
mynameistopher wrote:


Supposing the winner isn't the active winner, when does that extra turn happen?

The card makes it sound like it's immediately after the base breaks, so you might not have two consecutive turns. I might go - Base Breaker, Base Winner (extra turn), Other Player, Base Winner.


WhatAChamp wrote:
If you're the next person up, you could have two turns in a row.


Note that I didn't say you would always have two consecutive turns. I only said that was the case if you were the next person up. My assumption is that an EXTRA turn implies that you get a turn and then it goes back to the regular order. So if you were the next person up you would get two turns in a row.

mynameistopher wrote:
No, I think it's definitely ok to play more zapbots. Don't the rules say if the card contradicts the rules, go with the card? Using the above reasoning, you could argue that a zapbot NEVER spawns more minions - after all, normally it would be during that time of the turn when you can play ONE minion.


I'm not sure what to make of this but this doesn't sit right with me. I feel that you would need to have some sort of designation (i.e Special) to be able to do this. Otherwise you could break the rules of the game by playing any card during a Specials phase. I understand that the Zapbot says to play an extra minion and I understand that Summon says to play an extra minion but those extra minions do not have a Special designation so I can't see that making sense. It seems like playing that way makes the base scoring phase a regular mini-phase where players all can play 0 actions and 0 minions unless they get Specials that enhance their number of actions or minions. On the other hand, I see the base scoring phase as a special phase where only cards with the Special designation can be played.

I don't like the reasoning that the card contradicts the rules with regards to specials. If the card stated that an extra minion could be played at any time then I would agree with that but it just says that an extra minion could be played. That leads me to believe that it should lie within the regular confines of when a normal minion could be played. Otherwise you could argue that you could play the extra minion during someone else's turn. A similar argument might arise regarding Bacta the Future (destroy a minion, that minion's owner can immediately play an extra minion) where you could combo a whole string of minions on your opponent's turn. The card only specifies that you get to play the one minion immediately. You don't get your own mini-turn where you can give yourself more actions and minions.

Again, I will admit that I have seen people claim the opposite to what I am saying on the forums. I am by no means saying that I am certain about my ruling, just that it makes the most sense to me. If you can link a thread where a developer claims otherwise, I will start playing by those rules.


From what I have seen, J agrees with you, which to me means some heavy hitters say you can't.
 
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Ryan Post
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My favorite base:
Jungle Oasis.

Now hear me out! Jungle oasis adds something to the game that is very unique. For some, it creates a base where they can guarantee a two point turn. For others, it is a great place to banish people. Others again want to bring in help to make you lose a minion and get no points.

It is one of the few bases that helps someone in dead last catch up without giving the leader points.

For instance: Last game I had an archmage on Oasis. Another opponent had an Ivan on Goju, a cub scout and cavalry on mothership, and a cub scout on field of honor. (He got Ivan from Doppelganger). Player C played Sea Dogs and moved every Bear to Oasis. Not only did I get 0 points and lose Archmage as the leader, but 2nd place lost his captain and alot of minions, and overkilled for 2 points. This was after already playing a bunch of his minions, so he was sitting in a dead zone for the next 5 turns. Needless to say neither of us won (Played D did).

 
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Bryan Stout
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If a Special ability lets a minion get played during the Score Bases phase, that minion's ability gets triggered as appropriate. So yes, if a Zapbot is played, it brings other minions out with it. This is what is referred to in the rules:
the Rule Book, The Big Score / Me First! wrote:
If your Special allows you to play extra cards, you must play those immediately or not at all.

There is no requirement that those extra cards also be Special.

You can find a lot of answers to your questions at this FAQ thread being compiled by kttamayo: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1128326/intensive-faqs. It includes links to many earlier discussions, many of which have posts from the game's developers.

PS. There is no "Specials phase". Different Special abilities trigger at different points of the turn. They can trigger during opponents' turns as well, such as when bases start scoring, or when an opponent tries to destroy one of your minions. It is not unfair that Special abilities sometimes allow players to play several cards during an opponent's turn; that is exactly how they are supposed to be played.
 
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Ryan Post
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Barliman wrote:
If a Special ability lets a minion get played during the Score Bases phase, that minion's ability gets triggered as appropriate. So yes, if a Zapbot is played, it brings other minions out with it. This is what is referred to in the rules:
the Rule Book, The Big Score / Me First! wrote:
If your Special allows you to play extra cards, you must play those immediately or not at all.

There is no requirement that those extra cards also be Special.

You can find a lot of answers to your questions at this FAQ thread being compiled by kttamayo: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1128326/intensive-faqs. It includes links to many earlier discussions, many of which have posts from the game's developers.

PS. There is no "Specials phase". Different Special abilities trigger at different points of the turn. They can trigger during opponents' turns as well, such as when bases start scoring, or when an opponent tries to destroy one of your minions. It is not unfair that Special abilities sometimes allow players to play several cards during an opponent's turn; that is exactly how they are supposed to be played.


It says if your special let's you play extra cards. This is merely to say that if you play a special like Hidden Ninja, you can't wait until later to use that extra minion. If your Special let's you play a card, and THAT CARD let's you play another, that is an entirely different situation.
 
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Travis Vandenberg
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Alright I concede. I did find a thread (after following a link in your thread) where Todd said that it was legit. It bothers me that this is the case (I think it gives an extremely unfair advantage to certain combinations and takes away the uniqueness of Hidden Ninja by using Summon or any other extra minion play with a Mole) but I will abide by it.
 
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Travis Vandenberg
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posterchild21 wrote:
It says if your special let's you play extra cards. This is merely to say that if you play a special like Hidden Ninja, you can't wait until later to use that extra minion. If your Special let's you play a card, and THAT CARD let's you play another, that is an entirely different situation.


I agree with you that it shouldn't work, but since Todd has confirmed that you're allowed to do that, there's no real sense in arguing the logic of it.

This presents a new question for me though. For Babooms (you can play an action on them as an extra action), could you Hidden Ninja and then Baboom and add an action onto them? The card doesn't tell you to immediately play another action, but if we're going with the interpretation that a Zapbot lets you play another minion, it would only make sense that you could add an action onto the Baboom. That's pretty crazy.
 
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WhatAChamp wrote:


This presents a new question for me though. For Babooms (you can play an action on them as an extra action), could you Hidden Ninja and then Baboom and add an action onto them? The card doesn't tell you to immediately play another action, but if we're going with the interpretation that a Zapbot lets you play another minion, it would only make sense that you could add an action onto the Baboom. That's pretty crazy.


Talents can only be played during your turn. You could argue that if it's your turn you could use Baboom in your example with Hidden Ninja. If it's an opponents turn though, I would say you are for sure out of luck.
 
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Bryan Stout
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WhatAChamp wrote:
Alright I concede. I did find a thread (after following a link in your thread) where Todd said that it was legit. It bothers me that this is the case (I think it gives an extremely unfair advantage to certain combinations and takes away the uniqueness of Hidden Ninja by using Summon or any other extra minion play with a Mole) but I will abide by it.

It's a matter of expectations. I've done that myself with some games: built up an idea of how the game is supposed to be played, only to realize it's wrong. After you get used to the intended way, it's no problem. Trust me, finding intricate, surprising combinations of abilities (that are within the rules) is not only one of the delights of Smash Up, it's one of the things the game's designer Paul Petersen is most pleased to hear about.


WhatAChamp wrote:
This presents a new question for me though. For Babooms (you can play an action on them as an extra action), could you Hidden Ninja and then Baboom and add an action onto them? The card doesn't tell you to immediately play another action, but if we're going with the interpretation that a Zapbot lets you play another minion, it would only make sense that you could add an action onto the Baboom. That's pretty crazy.

As NS said, Talents can only be used during your turn. What's more, they can only be used during the Play Cards phase of your turn. (That part is not spelled out in the rules, but has been specified in several rulings by AEG folk.) So Hidden Ninja => Baboom could not get an extra action, even if the base is scored in your turn. However, Hidden Ninja => Chronomage could, because that ability is normal and triggered when played.

If you think that's crazy, look at this post by Ed Bolme from AEG:
edbolme wrote:
The following is a legal play:

Hidden Ninja to Chronomage to Summoning (to play an extra minion) to another Chronomage to whatever the spell is that lets you play others' spells to Terraforming (and therewith change the base being scored).
 
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Travis Vandenberg
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My bad. I should've checked the text. I didn't realize it was a talent. That makes total sense. And I had that Chronomage, Summon, Chronomage, Mass Enchantment, Terraform in mind when I was thinking of this. I guess for me I really like being able to figure out every possible angle that my opponent can come from before breaking a base and making sure I'll get the points I want. When there can be huge open-ended combos, it scares me. But I'll learn to work with it. Thanks for all the input!
 
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