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Subject: Tile evacuation alternative rss

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Richard Ham
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So I recently became aware of the fact (in this thread) that the core rules let players leave the tile they're on any time they feel like, which leaves the current traps/quests/monsters/etc. active, while also creating new quests/traps/monsters/etc. that run in parallel to the old ones. To me, that can only lead to lots of problems and rules erratum down the road, and as such, I'm making this modest proposal of how I think tile exiting should work, based on my 10 hours of playing the game so far. Bear in mind, I could be a flaming idiot, and be seeing problems where none exist, so take it or leave it... I just thought I'd share

--------------------------------------------------------------------
In order for Heroes to be able to leave a tile, three requirements must be met (these can be done in any order):

1) the tile has been completely cleared of all monsters and spawners
2) the tile's C quest (if any) has been resolved*
3) any traps with a disarm requirement other than "escape" are defeated

*A, C and S Quests do not resolve immediately during the refresh phase of the round where the quest parameters have been met, but during the refresh phase of the round where the parameters have been met AND all the monsters and spawners have been killed AND all non-escape traps have been disarmed.
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Endevor Rovedne
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You can totally do that, but in some quests if i remember correctly you will have to accept an exception to this rule, there is at least an act or two that force you to leave with unending spawn of monster behind you. I think they are in EQ1 or EQ2.

EDIT and it close an tactical choice, if you spawn a too hard to beat (in the situation) mini boss for example you cannot choose to keep going hoping he won't kill you until you improve your situation.
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Richard Ham
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Ah, well I guess I'd add a caveat then:

Quote:
*A, C and S Quests do not resolve immediately during the refresh phase of the round where the quest parameters have been met, but during the refresh phase of the round where the parameters have been met AND all the monsters and spawners have been killed AND all non-escape traps have been disarmed.

Exceptions for this rule are made for Quests that require the Heros leave the tile while enemies are still spawning. In these cases, the C quest can be resolved at the end of any round's Refresh phase where the parameters have been met.


Basically the same as the trap's "disarm: Escape" caveat, but for quests

Endevor, I don't remember if I've said it, but man, you have been a real champion on these boards, and I want to thank you personally for all the help you've been to me and everyone else! Same for Remy, you guys are superstars!
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Endevor Rovedne
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I have no money in it, but i really like this game (i am trying really hard to make the game hit retail in FR), the system is good, the stories they tell are good (the origin of the Rath species is my favourite), this why i try to clarify the rules as much as i can.
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Richard Ham
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Endevor wrote:
I have no money in it, but i really like this game (i am trying really hard to make the game hit retail in FR), the system is good, the stories they tell are good (the origin of the Rath species is my favourite), this why i try to clarify the rules as much as i can.


Well the fact that you're doing this solely as a volunteer makes you even more heroic in my book. Let songs be sung of your epic dedication!
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Ronan
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This game is all about liberty. I think that players should always be able to escape to a tile if they want. They know that it can be worse but it's up to their decision. Adding rules and rules is, for me, not the way it's meant to be played.

But well, it's just my opinion.
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Michael Cozzolino
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Lebanon
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If you dont clear a tile you dont receive gold rewards or meet merchants. You also dont get to reset your threat level. Are these incentives not enough to clear the tile?
 
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Richard Ham
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vazzucious wrote:
If you dont clear a tile you dont receive gold rewards or meet merchants. You also dont get to reset your threat level. Are these incentives not enough to clear the tile?


Not all tiles have gold rewards or merchants, in fact the majority don't...
 
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Glaya B
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I backed Myth because it reminded me a lot of World of Warcraft, a game that I've enjoyed playing with my family for years. When running a dungeon or raid instance in WoW, all the rooms are filled with monsters, and the heroes are generally supposed to clear all the monsters before continuing. However, except for a few bosses that have rooms with doors that close and such, none of them actually force you to clear them before continuing.

I think that's one of the strong points of the game--it's not a smart idea to run through a dungeon and aggro all the mobs at once, if you're the proper level for that dungeon...but you can if you want. Also, it means that if you are a higher level than the dungeon, you can do it as a challenge. I have friends who would run through lower level dungeons, pulling all the enemies, just to see if they could survive.

Plus, then there were specific situations like stealth runs. Rogues or druids would go into stealth and creep past all the enemies in order to find specific treasure chests or other items. It took creativity to find places where this was possible, and it allowed them to make use of their specific class skills. If everyone were forced to clear all monsters before proceeding, they couldn't have had their fun in that way.

I know that Myth is not the same as WoW, but I think there are enough similarities that, to me, it makes sense to draw a parallel. I think Warcraft is a better game for allowing such freedom. If people want to play a "clear the tile before moving" variant, of course, I fully support their freedom to do so. I just personally think it's a restriction that could limit creativity and adventure.
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Richard Ham
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This isn't about enforcing harsh restrictions to up difficulty or anything like that. It's to avoid a potential snowball effect of crazy rules exceptions and exploits that (I believe) will eventually drag the game down as more and more is added to it through expansions. Having multiple quests running in parallel along with multiple traps and everything else that can happen with multiple rooms active at once has the potential (IMO) to add an explosion of complexity to the game. I talked about this more in the thread I posted up top.

And if you disagree, then by all means, please ignore the thread
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Glaya B
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rahdo wrote:
This isn't about enforcing harsh restrictions to up difficulty or anything like that. It's to avoid a potential snowball effect of crazy rules exceptions and exploits that (I believe) will eventually drag the game down as more and more is added to it through expansions. Having multiple quests running in parallel along with multiple traps and everything else that can happen with multiple rooms active at once has the potential (IMO) to add an explosion of complexity to the game.


I really appreciate all of the work you are doing to help make the game more clear and easy for people to jump into and enjoy. The problem I see here is that, as long as this remains an unofficial variant, it will have no effect on any potential abuses/exploits/complications. Those things will all still be allowed by the official rules, and as such, they will have to be dealt with, no matter how many people decide to play by the unofficial variant.

Are you instead proposing that this be incorporated into the (currently evolving) updated official rules, in order to forestall such complications? That's really the concern that I have. I understand if Brian decides that you are completely correct and such limitations should be imposed in order to prevent things from getting too out of hand in the future. At the same time, I think it would be an unfortunate loss of freedom for the players.

I could certainly see a rule where the spawning of a mini-boss or boss could close "doors" of the current tile until dealt with, because those seem like special circumstances.
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Richard Ham
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Honestly I merely posted this variant for the sake of completeness... so far from my nearly 30 hours of experience with the game (a lot more of it rules wrangling than playing, unfortunately), I've identified 3 things that strike me as major problems with the rules as I understand them (and that understanding is constantly evolving, of course).

So like I said, mostly just for completeness, I figured I'd post my proposed solution to all 3 (since I'd already posted the other 2). I don't expect anyone to follow them, or even give a damn about them. It was just to "get it off my chest" so to speak
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Magic Pink
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rahdo wrote:


--------------------------------------------------------------------
In order for Heroes to be able to leave a tile, three requirements must be met (these can be done in any order):

1) the tile has been completely cleared of all monsters and spawners
2) the tile's C quest (if any) has been resolved*
3) any traps with a disarm requirement other than "escape" are defeated


I honestly think the game lends itself to players doing this anyway as leaving a tile just means that stuff will chase you. If you're having trouble with something on a tile, adding another is only going to add MORE trouble since there isn't really an "Escape" mechanic. Maybe that's a house rule that would work out better rather then this variant?

The idea that the previous tile just vanishes if you exit it could work just as well too. To give it a mechanic, you could say that the previous tile leaves the game when all players are off it.. but if monsters follow you onto the new tile before you get everyone else on it they stay as well.
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Jeremy Steward
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I don't mind this as a variant, it makes things simple.

But for me personally, I wouldnt use it because it takes away freedom. Does it open it up for gaming the system? Maybe, but like I said you choose the difficulty of the tile.

The reason I dont have an issue with leaving a tile before clearing is there are consequences for doing so.

Here are the specifics:
Lair: Leaving a lair means it keeps spawning = you deserve whats coming to you.
Monsters: They follow you so nothing is gained.
Chapter Quest: I dont have the game so im not sure 100% here but it should be no different than failing a quest (which can happen even if you do clear) so, again nothing is gained.
6x6 Traps: Leaving the tile early can let you escape but you miss out on the trap reward, the extra gold, and the merchant. Seems fair to me.
4x6 Traps: For 4 out of the 6 traps, the goal is to leave the trap behind anyway. The avatar of winter would follow you (albeit really slowly) and would be cleaving you like crazy as you try and get past it. So, only for the darkness falls trap would there be a benefit to leaving early without much penalty other than the trap reward.

So, honestly the only "problem case" with leaving a tile early is the darkness falls trap on the 4x6 tile. If you have an issue with that you should houserule that trap.
 
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Richard Ham
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Deadwolf wrote:
So, honestly the only "problem case" with leaving a tile early is the darkness falls trap on the 4x6 tile. If you have an issue with that you should houserule that trap.


Give it time... my whole supposition is that over ensuing expansions, this rule (or lack of rule, really) will start to create more and more loopholes, by design. It just seems insane to me to leave it in, as it can cause nothing but trouble, for no upside...

But that's just my 2 cents. I did this for 20 years, but admittedly it was in the video game sphere instead of the boardgame sphere, so maybe I'm wrong, but my designer sense is definitely tingling...
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