Rick Blaha
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For me, the single most off putting aspect of Legendary is the amount of deck selection, construction, and shuffling prior to play with limited depth of gameplay.

First, strictly in terms of setup time and activity, how does Pathfinder compare to Legendary?

Now, consider the actual gameplay. How much greater is the return on gameplay with the invested setup time?
 
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Chris
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This is one of the only problems I have with Pathfinder - the setup, depending on how many heroes you're using, can be offputting. Mainly it's in the setup of the location decks, which require shuffling the various deck types, then allocating the right numbers of specific types of cards to each location, then shuffling THOSE decks, then shuffling the hero decks and dealing out the starting hands. (I usually play with 3 heroes, solo BTW.)

Whereas with Legendary, I use a randomizer, pull the right decks and just shuffle everything into the Hero or the Villain deck and go.

That's just my opinion - I do really like both games, but the setup for Pathfinder has on more than one occasion put me off from playing, even with the additional gameplay depth - whereas I can't say the same for Legendary.
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Tom Tjarks
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Having played both, they have similar set up times. Legendary can end the game sooner (Galactus getting all five master strikes early on, or somesuch). Most of my games of Pathfinder have gone to thirty turns (aka full blessing deck) unless I'm very careless in solo play. Group play definitely goes to the full blessing deck or a win.
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James Palmer
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I find if you already have characters created, the game sets up in only a few minutes, definitely 5 minutes or less. If playing with more players, then you play with more locations, and this is the most time consuming part, so if you're playing with many players (5 or 6), it would take a few minutes more.

If it's your first game and you're creating characters using the suggested starting decks, it will take more time to set up as you find the specific required cards for each character.

If you're building your own decks for starting new characters, ignoring the suggested decks, setup could take quite awhile, especially if you have any new people who are then going to want to read through each card and see what it would do - I definitely wouldn't suggest this option if you're concerned with setup time.

Personally, I'e found myself surprised at people complaining about the setup time for this game. The insert in the box does an amazing job of sorting out your cards, and I find setup for this game faster than most of the boardgames I own.
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michael ray
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Setup, if you do it as a group goes quickly, you can each take a stack (items/weapons/barriers/whatever) and quickly fill in all the piles.

And tear down is even quicker, because as you fight/acquire each item, and then close each location you can be sorting the cards back into their slots in the box.

The game play is better I would say, just because you move your character around to different locations, so it makes having 6+ piles seem more worth it.

Additionally, once you've built your starting hand, it's built moving forward, so you're not counting out the starting cards for each players hand that games like legendary/dominion/etc use for every play thru.
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artayd2
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squegeeboo wrote:
Setup, if you do it as a group goes quickly, you can each take a stack (items/weapons/barriers/whatever) and quickly fill in all the piles.



This is pretty much what we do, one person draws the cards from the categories while the other one reads them off and places them in the location, then we split up the shuffling for the group.
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Chris
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Felkor wrote:
The insert in the box does an amazing job of sorting out your cards, and I find setup for this game faster than most of the boardgames I own.


This is an excellent point - depending on how you've organized using the insert can make a huge difference as well; this may, in turn, depend on things like whether you're sleeving, whether you're keeping all the decks in the packaging, etc.
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Aaron Edwards
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I agree with what others have said. The setup time is comparable to Legendary. Pathfinder may even take a little longer, again depending on how many players, how much you've saved from previous sessions, etc. A point in Pathfinder's favor, though, is that the box is broken up into more compartments, so you can keep everything sorted out better and setup can be a little more organized, maybe not quite as daunting. I don't personally find either game to be that bad in terms of setup, but I do empathize with the feeling. It's the reason I never take Mage Knight off the shelf--I don't want to spend half of my playtime packing and unpacking.
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Darth Ed
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razor367 wrote:
First, strictly in terms of setup time and activity, how does Pathfinder compare to Legendary?

Pathfinder (PACG) is worse, IMHO. I've played over a hundred games of Legendary and about 20 games of PACG, for the record. I don't think Legendary's setup time is very long at all, honestly (I recommend using a randomizer and keeping your cards organized), but Pathfinder takes me a lot longer to setup. There are 8 decks (separate decks for Monsters, Barriers, Armor, Weapons, Items, Spells, Allies, and Blessings) that you have to shuffle in Pathfinder first. After you shuffle those decks, depending on how many characters you are playing, you then assemble 3 to 6 location decks, typically, and then you have to shuffle those. Oh, and then you have to shuffle the deck(s) for your character(s). With 4 characters, that's a grand total of 18 decks you have to shuffle, assuming I haven't forgotten one. (Some of those decks may only have 10 cards in them, but still.)

Compare that to Legendary which only has 3 decks you need to shuffle (the Hero deck, the Villain deck, and your personal deck). If you think Legendary is bad, Pathfinder is a lot worse.

Teardown for PACG can be lengthy, too. You have to go through each of your decks and reconstruct them, basically. That involves figuring out which cards to keep in your characters' decks and which to put back in the box. If you have a large party, that can take a while, and the decisions can be agonizing at times.

As for whether it is worth the effort in gameplay, you're the best person to judge that. It probably depends on how much you like rolling dice and whether you enjoy role playing. I will say that I enjoy both games a lot. I find the strategy deeper in Legendary, but you develop an attachment to your characters in Pathfinder. If you're the imaginative sort, you can develop a narrative for their adventures. The gameplay can be a little same-y though, if you're not into imagining a narrative.
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James Palmer
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DarthEd wrote:
[q="razor367"]
Teardown for PACG can be lengthy, too. You have to go through each of your decks and reconstruct them, basically. That involves figuring out which cards to keep in your characters' decks and which to put back in the box. If you have a large party, that can take a while, and the decisions can be agonizing at times.


I would consider deciding what cards your character keeps and doesn't keep part of playing the game, rather than "teardown". The teardown in PACG is fairly minimal beyond this, as the location decks will mostly already be back in the box (as you do this as soon as you close them throughout the game).
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michael ray
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Felkor wrote:


I would consider deciding what cards your character keeps and doesn't keep part of playing the game, rather than "teardown". The teardown in PACG is fairly minimal beyond this, as the location decks will mostly already be back in the box (as you do this as soon as you close them throughout the game).


I agree, and, if you've already decided, but some of your group is still figuring out what to keep/ditch, you can start the setup for the next mission.
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Eoin Corrigan
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Wexford
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My wife and I play PACG, two characters each. Set-up usually takes me 10- 15 minutes working alone, enough for it to be a minor drag but worth the effort.
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Richard Montgomery
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Setup isn't to bad if you put cards back randomly. Not much shuffling ahead of time. Shuffle a couple decks after the game. Tear down is way faster than Legendary. Most cards go back as you play.
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Darth Ed
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Felkor wrote:
I would consider deciding what cards your character keeps and doesn't keep part of playing the game, rather than "teardown".

It's a matter of semantics, I suppose. IMHO, anything that happens after the Villain has been defeated and/or the scenario completed is after the game. And, if the scenario gives you a reward or card/power feat, look out. Deciding which feat to take for all of your characters often takes me a while. My buddy and I have debated which feats to take and which cards our characters should keep for up to 45 minutes on occasion after the scenario.

I can sort and file the cards in Legendary in about 4 minutes, tops.

Just my two cents.
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Balen
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Honestly setup doesn't take very long for me by myself or with a group. Five to ten minutes max and in the grand scheme of things, that isn't long at all.

When I finish a game I will shuffle in the banes and boons being put back into the box. I also keep my locations, scenarios and other non-randomized cards organized.
The longest part of the "teardown" for me is choosing the cards I want to keep, and it is an enjoyable part of the game.

I honestly don't know how other people sift through cards or shuffle them, but it shouldn't take THAT long at all.
Having a group also GREATLY decreases the amount of time needed. Overall, the setup time for me is much shorter than comparable games.
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michael ray
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DarthEd wrote:
My buddy and I have debated which feats to take and which cards our characters should keep for up to 45 minutes on occasion after the scenario.

I can sort and file the cards in Legendary in about 4 minutes, tops.

Just my two cents.


45 minutes? I believe you might be what we call "an edge case".
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James Palmer
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I should also note that if you're going to play this game with different people at different stages in the adventure, the setup can take quite a bit longer. Last night I just finished Burnt Offerings (the first Adventure Pack) solo, and tonight I'm playing with a totally new person, so I had to take out all cards from Burnt Offerings - it probably took about 15 minutes or so to sort through all the cards and pull those ones out, and it will take longer once I have more expansions and need to sort them out to play with someone new.

If you're only playing this solo or with the same people all the time, this is a non-issue though.
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Mark Reynolds
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I decided to time the set up for my next scenario. It took me around 8 minutes to grab my box, open it, look for the next scenario, and build all the location while shuffling each of the card types.

I am using 2 characters (already built) which would be 4 locations. If the box is sorted as suggested in the manual the card types on the locations are in that order from left to right. This makes building the scenario go fairly easy and quick.
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