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Subject: Pick Your Next Stretch Reward rss

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Patrick Nickell
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One of the most fun parts of a Kickstarter Campaign is creating Stretch Rewards for upgrades to the game. Another really fun part is creating ways for my backers to get involved in the project and have a say in what goes inside the box.

To be perfectly honest I love all the Stretch Reward ideas but I'm having a difficult time deciding which should go first so I thought I would leave that up to my backers!

Please vote on what Stretch Reward you would like to see the most. have fun!

Poll
What Stretch Reward would you like to see in Pay Dirt first?
  Your Answer   Vote Percent Vote Count
Big Hard Hat Meeple (First Player Token)
17.0% 26
5th Player Expansion
52.9% 81
Poltergeist Expansion
22.9% 35
Custom Vacuum Insert (Will very nicely hold and fit all pieces)
18.3% 28
Alien Frontiers Inspired Expansion
11.8% 18
Player Shields (To hide money)
13.1% 20
Steampunk Expansion
13.1% 20
Voters 153
This poll is now closed.   153 answers
Poll created by unlpat
Closes: Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:00 am
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Duane Crago
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This is a really tough one as they are all really cool sounding
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August Larson
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It was a really hard decision, but I chose the Poltergeist expansion. I don't play with 5 people often enough to really get me to spring for the 5th player add-on. The Alien Frontiers and Steampunk expansions sound exciting, though, and I would love to see the artwork for those!
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Xenothon Stelnicki
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In order of my interest:
Custom Vacuum Insert (Will very nicely hold and fit all pieces)
Poltergeist Expansion
5th Player Expansion
Steampunk Expansion
Alien Frontiers Inspired Expansion
Big Hard Hat
Player Shields

In the order I unselfishly think they should be available (not knowing expenses, of course):
Big Hard Hat
Poltergeist Expansion
5th Player Expansion
Alien Frontiers Inspired Expansion
Custom Vacuum Insert (Will very nicely hold and fit all pieces)
Player Shields
Steampunk Expansion
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Yoki Erdtman
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How about offering some cool game upgrades, particularly that stick to the game's theme? I would likely never use Poltergeist, Steampunk, nor Alien Frontiers inspired expansions. Why not some bonus Gear, Equipment, and Claim tiles, even as bonus add-ons if not as stretch rewards?

I would also love unique artwork for each of the game's tiles, and for the Hardship cards (artwork tied to the particular Hardship event, and not just the weather).

Unique player boards would also rock! Perhaps with each camp's name instead of the Pay Dirt logo, or use this space on the player boards to include a game turn reference, as suggested by Rahdo in his video. Speaking of which, I always love games that come with reference sheets, they definitely enhance gameplay.
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Jason Christie
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Spot on Yoki. I completely agree with all of your comments, couldn't have said it better myself.

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Daniel Palmer
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I don't like the custom insert stretch goal. First of all, I sleeve my cards and vacuum inserts never seem to work with sleeves correctly (even if efforts are taken to do so). Most importantly I know they can be expensive and time consuming to get right. The project that I remember it being an issue for was Heroes of Metro City, but I know I've heard of other publishers that struggled with them. I'd rather see the stretch goals upgrade or expand the game. I think we as gamers have gotten pretty good at storing our games despite those simple cardboard inserts.
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蓝魔
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Is the "Alien Frontiers" expansion inspired by the theme or the mechanics ??

If the former then I'd rather it be an optional mini-expansion at most, like the "Poltergeist" one.

If its mechanics based though, ie: dice rolling & placement (including blocking & bumping) then bring it on, please.

However like others have said I'd rather you just stick to enhancing the core game with:
- player shields
- improved quality components
- first player token
- distinct & perhaps unique meeples
- cloth bags for the dirt tiles
- custom player boards & artwork

to start with at least.

I too have zero interest in the "custom insert".
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Nathan Morse
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Yokiboy wrote:
How about offering some cool game upgrades, particularly that stick to the game's theme? I would likely never use Poltergeist, Steampunk, nor Alien Frontiers inspired expansions. Why not some bonus Gear, Equipment, and Claim tiles, even as bonus add-ons if not as stretch rewards?

I would also love unique artwork for each of the game's tiles, and for the Hardship cards (artwork tied to the particular Hardship event, and not just the weather).

Unique player boards would also rock! Perhaps with each camp's name instead of the Pay Dirt logo, or use this space on the player boards to include a game turn reference, as suggested by Rahdo in his video. Speaking of which, I always love games that come with reference sheets, they definitely enhance gameplay.


Yeah, honestly, the seemingly silly expansions frankly concern me that the game itself may not be for me. The first announcement of the Poltergeist expansion threw a big rock of doubt into my crowdfunding confidence lake. So, I'm glad to see that Yoki and Jason feel the same way. Is this game really so light and silly that these expansions should appeal to the target market? The simultaneous play* is of huge appeal to me, and some other aspects are appetizing, but these proposed expansions are a turnoff for me. (Sorry, Patrick!)

* Simultaneous Play — The Original Downtime Killer
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James Clarke
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zefquaavius wrote:
threw a big rock of doubt into my crowdfunding confidence lake.

Shakespeare?
 
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Stewart Falconer

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In order of interest (high - low)

5th Player Expansion
Player Shields
insert
Alien Frontiers Inspired Expansion
Poltergeist Expansion
Steampunk Expansion
Big Hard Hat

 
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Wil
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I'll add to the "no insert for me" camp.

I personally chuck away almost all of my inserts, even the highly regarded ones like Lords of Waterdeep.

Why?

In a word "Expansions".

Add in an expansion or some enhancements to the components and the nice insert no longer works OR you need two boxes for the game. In my case, shelf space is hard to come by so I really like to keep everything in a single box.

Due to this, my vote is to save the money on an insert and put it into either improved components or game development.

Thanks.

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Xenothon Stelnicki
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FYI, Patrick has already stated in the discussion on the KS that the insert WILL account for sleeves. That may not allay your concern, but it did mine.

orange_rhino wrote:
I don't like the custom insert stretch goal. First of all, I sleeve my cards and vacuum inserts never seem to work with sleeves correctly (even if efforts are taken to do so). Most importantly I know they can be expensive and time consuming to get right. The project that I remember it being an issue for was Heroes of Metro City, but I know I've heard of other publishers that struggled with them. I'd rather see the stretch goals upgrade or expand the game. I think we as gamers have gotten pretty good at storing our games despite those simple cardboard inserts.
 
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Wil
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One other comment: although I'm more interested in additional content over a 5th player addition, I would highly recommend that the 5th player addition be the first stretch goal.

Scoville recently had a Kickstarter where the 5th player addition seemed a bit far out of reach and I think the campaign really stalled because of this. The Scoville campaign did succeed quite well in the end but based on the comments and the tone in the comments, the lack of a 5th player seemed to frustrate many.

Since Pay Dirt offers simultaneous play and auctions, I can see the desire for 5 players being even higher to many so this may be a good one to knock out first (even though my personal interests and vote is on content).
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Xenothon Stelnicki
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I don't think it's on the table, but I'll add my voice to the call for more original artwork on the game components if it's feasible $-wise. meeple
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Xenothon Stelnicki
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Wouldn't that be a great reason for it to be mid-tier with some other cool stuff preceding it? That way the word-of-mouth push by existing backers doesn't peter out after the first and most-wanted stretch is met? I know the successful campaigns I've watched always have something very desirable jussst out of reach at every moment of the campaign and the bigger-hitters in the middle.

wgerken wrote:
Since Pay Dirt offers simultaneous play and auctions, I can see the desire for 5 players being even higher to many so this may be a good one to knock out first (even though my personal interests and vote is on content).
 
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Marc Bennett
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im going to chime in here.

first off the mini expansions. people wanting a realistic experience will not want the steampunk, poltergeist or alien frontiers expansions. so keep them small and easily removable (with an icon on those cards) i myself would love them on and off depending on my mood)

however since not everyone is interested in them, and since they are small, why not add them as an add on and not as a stretch goal, those who want them can pay a little extra for them, and those who dont can get stretch goals they are more interested in.

or you could add them in as an addon at certain points in the funding level, but in addition to a game stretch goal. this will keep everyone happy, but you will have to play around with the numbers and such.

about the 5th player expansion. i would try to get this as soon as you could. the previous comment about scoville was correct, they really struggled right up till the point they rearranged the goals and got the 5 player expansion unlocked then they took off all the way to clear plastic phantom peppers. many people have groups that will not accommodate 4 player games (lucky bastards!)

now, my personal interest in the goals listed.

5 player expansion (maybe 6 player?)
steampunk expansion
poltergeist expansion
alien frontiers expansion

custom insert and hardhat token (indifferent)

player shields... if we can get away with a small world style hidden tokens i would prefer that. player shields always get knocked over in my group.

other expansion ideas. (some already mentioned)

more custom artwork on the hardship cards. i love the artwork in the game but the hardships are all the same looking. however i know art is expensive so this may be further down.

named player boards, this was a great idea. you could even throw in optional unique abilities for each player.

not sure what is being used for the gold tokens but you could use realistic gold nuggets like euphoria did. (which i may be using anyway!)

also as someone mentioned... more more more. more claim tiles more hardships more equipment and more stuff. now i realize thats what the themed expansions are for (i believe they add more of everything) so why not have a mini expansion same size as the others, that is just the same ol normal theme that some people want but they can still have more.

ok sorry this was so long but i had lots to say! hope it helps.
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Andrew

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Will there be any art differences for things like the camp gear? Also, the text on those is awefully hard to read...
 
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Wil
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xen911 wrote:
Wouldn't that be a great reason for it to be mid-tier with some other cool stuff preceding it? That way the word-of-mouth push by existing backers doesn't peter out after the first and most-wanted stretch is met? I know the successful campaigns I've watched always have something very desirable jussst out of reach at every moment of the campaign and the bigger-hitters in the middle.


You make a great point and from my personal perspective, I agree, but I'm also already a backer.

It's really tough to say what works best. In the case of Scoville there were a lot of vocal would be backers that stated they wouldn't back the game until it supported 5 (and 6) players.

It seemed to play out this way as well as the campaign really stalled until Tasty Minstrel Games decided to actually just add in the 5th and 6th players (not even via a stretch). It then picked up and funded.

Then it stalled again when everyone got a bit fixated on pepper meeples (another stretch goal). Some vocal folks said they would pull out if it didn't hit that stretch goal. When it finally did, the campaign exploded with a remarkable finish.

I don't think we can accurately conclude anything from the above other then some people on Kickstarter can be quite vocal, but I do think 5 players is a wise early opening move.

I think the most important thing is to get the word out there and I think Crash Games has done an excellent job with this as they have announced some thoughts on stretch goals, but not a sequence. That was probably a wise move as it will encourage conversations like this and help with defining stretch goal order.

I'm looking forward to seeing this campaign succeed and what story it will tell at the end.
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Patrick Nickell
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moocifer wrote:
Is the "Alien Frontiers" expansion inspired by the theme or the mechanics ??

If the former then I'd rather it be an optional mini-expansion at most, like the "Poltergeist" one.

If its mechanics based though, ie: dice rolling & placement (including blocking & bumping) then bring it on, please.

However like others have said I'd rather you just stick to enhancing the core game with:
- player shields
- improved quality components
- first player token
- distinct & perhaps unique meeples
- cloth bags for the dirt tiles
- custom player boards & artwork

to start with at least.

I too have zero interest in the "custom insert".


The Alien Frontiers inspired mini-expansion will be inspired by the theme. The actions of the associated cards and tiles will have mechanics that are an obvious tip to the hat but unfortunately no dice rolling in this one
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Patrick Nickell
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Klaxas wrote:
im going to chime in here.

first off the mini expansions. people wanting a realistic experience will not want the steampunk, poltergeist or alien frontiers expansions. so keep them small and easily removable (with an icon on those cards) i myself would love them on and off depending on my mood)

however since not everyone is interested in them, and since they are small, why not add them as an add on and not as a stretch goal, those who want them can pay a little extra for them, and those who dont can get stretch goals they are more interested in.

or you could add them in as an addon at certain points in the funding level, but in addition to a game stretch goal. this will keep everyone happy, but you will have to play around with the numbers and such.


I would love to be able to offer the mini-expansions as add-ons and it would work very well except that it would be an absolute nightmare when it came time to ship and would drive my costs up to the point that I am not able to offer them. When a fulfillment company like Amazon or any other fulfillment company has to take the time to put extra things in the box they charge around .75 for each extra item that they pack, so I could end up paying an extra $2.25 for someone that was kind enough to order all 3 mini-expansions. My only other choice would to be to have my manufacturer print "x" copies one way and then another way and all the different combinations that would exist. This would also result in a much higher cost.

If I was doing my own International Fulfillment I could offer this and I don't think it's fair to offer it to my U.S. Customers only (since I do my own U.S. Fulfillment and I would have no trouble packing up additional items and I certainly wouldn't charge myself for it, lol)

So unfortunately, even though I love the idea Marc and I'd really love to do it, logistics is going to kill this idea
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Patrick Nickell
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bobroxs wrote:
Will there be any art differences for things like the camp gear? Also, the text on those is awefully hard to read...


There will be some modifications to the final graphic design. I will make sure that the text is easier to read. Once you have the tile or card in hand I don't think you'll have an issue reading it.
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Patrick Nickell
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Someone one mentioned the Hardship Cards not having unique art. There are actually three pieces of art that rotate amongst the 30 cards and the art is indicative of how much the temperature is dropping.

The -1 Degree Cards have just a light haze
The -2 Degrees Cards have sleet
The -3 Degrees Cards have snow

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James Clarke
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The proposed steam punk, poltergeist and alien frontier expansions, just seem to be out of kilter with the game’s underlying character.

Since the game aims to simulate a gritty industrial experience, I’d expect expansions to feature elements such as more machinery, diverse minerals, share ownership, different company abilities, market economy etc.

I’d be worried that this game needs a poltergeist expansion, like Twilight Struggle needs a ponies expansion.
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Sarah Reed
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We don't play with 5 players so we'd want expansions first and really want the Poltergeist one first!
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