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K G
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apparently the second ed of DustTactics IS the rules in the new starter boxes , along with additional rules that will be released in the next new book .

as far as i'm concerned , the new rules are #&(@ ! all they do is make it into another WH40K clone on a grid ......that you will later be able to play OFF the grid ............... like regular 40K .............

a long while back , i was told by oliver that i was one of perhaps only 2 or 3 people that truley understood the game and how it all works together .

last year i was approached by oliver to be part of the play test group for sencond ed , and NONE of the rules or stats presented in this new edition were part of ANYTHING i was sent to playtest . apparently this new edition is written and designed by battle front , based off their playtest group of people who never played it previously (some of whom were not even wargamers) . after the new starter rules were released a month or 2 aqo , i have asked that if its not to late , please remove my name from the credits as i had NOTHING to do with what BF has written .

it is a rule by rule rewrite , from bottom to top . some of you may like it , but i also know that some do not .

as such , i will continue to make periodical posts on my dust blog here on BGG , but i will ONLY do units and rules based on first ed . i WILL be making a few "suggestions" as to rules updates for first ed players . so if you are wanting to play first ed , then just subscribe to my blogs here on the geek .
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Sebastian Grab
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Hmm... Is there a place I can find a PDF with the new rules, or even better, have someone made a comparison? I have to admit I haven't played the game for a while now, mostly because there is no distributor for it in Poland - the game is basicly dead, very hard to find any players at all.

The idea of moving Tactics off the grid is just silly - I have bought Warfare books for that, but hey, Warfere seems to be dead as well, so...

 
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Dave Smith
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The latest Wargames Illustrated 317 has the free booklet, or download here: http://www.gf9-dnd.com/Docs/Dust/Dustrules_starter.pdf
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Helmut Apel
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If that´s the case and DT will develop in that direction, i will just stay with all my DT-Units, Expansions and DW Books as they are today and be happy with that.

Already tons of stuff to play for a loooong time.
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Martin Larouche
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The move to BattleFront was the worst thing that could have happened to Dust.

Distribution is still horrible after over 6 months. Only way to get my hands on them is online ordering, with expansive shipping.

Some complained about FFG, but they were definitely immensely better than what we have now. At least distribution was good and the game had visibility just by being in FFG's library.
With FFG, Dust could aspire to become a big name in gaming.
With BF, Dust is doomed to remain a niche within a niche game.
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Martin Larouche
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TylerDax wrote:
If that´s the case and DT will develop in that direction, i will just stay with all my DT-Units, Expansions and DW Books as they are today and be happy with that.

Already tons of stuff to play for a loooong time.


That's what a lot of us are going to be doing.

BF is changing Dust not to make a better game. They are changing it for the sake of change. They are trying to fix what wasn't broken.

The end result is that Dust 2.0 is a tad more complex, but not necessarilly better, game. Many people will prefer the simpler version as complexity for complexity's sake is pointless.
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GrandInquisitorKris wrote:
...apparently this new edition is written and designed by battle front , based off their playtest group of people who never played it previously (some of whom were not even wargamers).
I do recall during the "OMG these new dice are terrible!" conversations and BF saying basically that it was the new players that couldn't wrap their heads around rolling blanks, so they thought 3 symbols made it more intuitive than 2 symbols (which defies logic to me, but whatever.) So apparently they are banking on a new player-base to really propel Dust Tactics forward, which seems a risky proposition, given how many of us own a lot of product and have had issues with how the changes are going.

I don't hate the new rules, so I plan to sally forth, but with all of the old-timers who are basically planting their flag in the ground as being against the bulk of the new changes, there seems to be a market for "Dust Tactics 1.0" to continue existing in a meaningful way. And that fact seems to really muddy the waters, if they want the game to grow and prosper going forward. (How do you do that if you've got 33% of the people devoted to old rules, 33% of the people devoted to new rules, and 33% of the people on the sidelines wondering if it's even worth attempting to partake?)

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K G
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ironicaly FCM , the largest voice FOR the new rules seem to be warfare players , who seem to think they make tactics more appealing ; which gives BF even LESS of an incentive to revamp warfare , if they can just let it lapse long enough for the warfare players to give in and play tactics .

i also found the arguement that the LOS rules were to complicated to be kinda BS , since the forums have ALWAYS had dads talking about how easy their kids picked up the game rules , so if KIDS can understand the LOS rules , then what kind of mental malfunctions did the BF playtester have if the rules were just to tough for them ?

but as i said , anyone wanting to stay in first ed can always just follow my blog , i will do what i can to keep it all alive for us .
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clive holland
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Oh Kris, what have you done to me !!!!!

I wanted to buy into this game and did a lot of research regarding the old FFG figures and the New BF figures. I found out that I could buy any existing expansions I fancied because BF were releasing new unit cards to go with the new 2nd edition rules. I went for the 2 player starter set, a couple of expansions, the new unit cards and am waiting to pre order the new rules. Then the plan was to buy the new new stater sets for each Nation. Now the dilemma I face after your above post is.

1. Do I stick with the rules in the 2 player starter set?
2. If so does that mean I cannot buy new expansions, as their unit cards won't be compatible?
3. Can I use the new unit cards using the 2 player starter set of rules?
4. Shall I just ignore your comments and go through with my original plan?

From what was not an easy choice to start with has now it seems got a lot harder.

Kris and other, what would, in your opinions be the best way forward to buy into this new game system for me?

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dutchy124 wrote:


Kris and other, what would, in your opinions be the best way forward to buy into this new game system for me?



I see no reason not to try both rule sets and see which one you prefer.

It is true that without some house ruling, you will not have cards to play the new BF units with old rules, but there is plenty of great stuff already out there.

It would appear much, if not all of the stuff in the new starter boxes seems to be pre-existing units that you can get the old stats for.
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Thiago Aranha
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Frankly, for me this offers a great stopping point. I have a lot of great Dust stuff, and I was running out of space to store it all, and more units than I can use regularly. I'm happy with my collection, so if the next units don't have rules that I can use, then I just don't get them. No big deal.
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Good points Kris and my thoughts exactly on how Dust Tactics "BF Edition" has warped the game from being a good entry level game with depth to a 40K clone.

In my opinion from what I've seen the game balance seems to have gone out the window so I'm not surprised by your reactions and I think they are justified.

Regardless of how nice the new cards look the game has been warped into Warfare on a grid with terrible LOS rules and in my opinion a pointless dice change.


Loophole Master wrote:
Frankly, for me this offers a great stopping point. I have a lot of great Dust stuff, and I was running out of space to store it all, and more units than I can use regularly. I'm happy with my collection, so if the next units don't have rules that I can use, then I just don't get them. No big deal.


I bought up the models I was missing for my Axis and Allied armies recently after seeing and completely disagreeing with the "new" rules and changes and I think I'll also stop here as well which is a real shame.



I had my doubts when Battlefront took over Dust Tactics but at this point it has been cemented completely. Even just them simply removing the thematic "Jump" from the Pounder and nerfing the Ludwig into the ground makes me cringe at what will happen to every other model in the new rules.



I will keep my eye on how things develop and enjoy a casual game with FFGs rules in the meantime but I really believe BF has just nailed all but the last nail in Dust Tactics/Warfares coffin.



This post can't end in such a depressing way..... Oh I know.



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Also, quite a few people have been banned from the official Dust Tactics Facebook page in the past couple months, and had all of their posts deleted. Blech. Remember when the prospects for this game were looking bright? I really hope that BF pulls out of this hideous slump ASAP.
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braveheart101 wrote:
Also, quite a few people have been banned from the official Dust Tactics Facebook page in the past couple months, and had all of their posts deleted. Blech. Remember when the prospects for this game were looking bright? I really hope that BF pulls out of this hideous slump ASAP.


Their best bet would have been to make some battle report videos with the new rules showing that they are indeed a step in the right direction.


Instead there have been some arguably terrible videos on BeastsOfWar, the "best" of them is this one.



Skip to about 8:40 and then pause it at 8:43 and look at his reaction to the camera at the Battlefront guy throwing the miniature at the ground.... What the heck are we watching here?



On their site they hired some women to dress up as characters and play a game of Dust Tactics!



This sounded cool until you load up the above video and all it is is a song attached to a fast forwarded session for just under 3 minutes. Talk about a missed opportunity in more ways than one. shake




How do you promote a game? Lets watch the FFG video from 2010 that is over 6 minutes long.



Such a great video, it is what got me to pick up the huge Starter Set (shown in the video) in the first place. Watching the video again it is a bit sad to see the game really tarnished considering how much potential I saw in it when I watched this video. FFG's production quality is simply top notch.




You've got a real uphill battle with this one Battlefront, I think you should have really waited for FFG to sell off their stock before trying to mess with all the rules and reinvent the game in your new image.


I'll be keeping an eye on this as it develops and hope for the best.
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Can I just mention how annoying Paolo's obsession with boobed-out cosplayers is? I mean, I like boobs just as much as the next guy, but there's a time and a place for that kinda thing.
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I haven't played with the rules in the starter sets, but I have read them. The implications of some of the changes are easy to see by themselves, but I'm hoping that when taken as a whole and using the re-costed units it will still be a good game.

But I ain't liking what I'm seeing and reading from people that have tried the new system so far. Hopefully it just takes time to adjust to the new play style and guys haven't uncovered the tactical depth I pray is still there.

Because it does look like these rules lend themselves to a player being able to get away with more tactical errors than before, and that is something of a negative for me.

The fact that no Version 2.0 faction card decks, nor a comprehensive 2.0 Rulebook have been released alongside the starter sets, effectively leaving long-time players in limbo is a strange move IMO.

Edit: and I realise there are murmurings that the new stuff will be out in a few months, but that appears to be time enough for damage to be done.

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K G
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dutchy124 wrote:
Oh Kris, what have you done to me !!!!!

I wanted to buy into this game and did a lot of research regarding the old FFG figures and the New BF figures. I found out that I could buy any existing expansions I fancied because BF were releasing new unit cards to go with the new 2nd edition rules. I went for the 2 player starter set, a couple of expansions, the new unit cards and am waiting to pre order the new rules. Then the plan was to buy the new new stater sets for each Nation. Now the dilemma I face after your above post is.

1. Do I stick with the rules in the 2 player starter set?
2. If so does that mean I cannot buy new expansions, as their unit cards won't be compatible?
3. Can I use the new unit cards using the 2 player starter set of rules?
4. Shall I just ignore your comments and go through with my original plan?

From what was not an easy choice to start with has now it seems got a lot harder.

Kris and other, what would, in your opinions be the best way forward to buy into this new game system for me?



i HATE the new system , but you may like it . so hey , try it , as a new player it may be yyour thing . if its NOT , then subscribe to my blog , and we can keep first ed alive here , complete with restating the new units and reworking the new skills to make them first ed friendly .
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K G
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Loophole Master wrote:
Frankly, for me this offers a great stopping point. I have a lot of great Dust stuff, and I was running out of space to store it all, and more units than I can use regularly. I'm happy with my collection, so if the next units don't have rules that I can use, then I just don't get them. No big deal.


while i know you and i butt heads alot , you could always follow my blog , and see what i come up with for the new units .
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K G
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MaximumDT wrote:

Good points Kris and my thoughts exactly on how Dust Tactics "BF Edition" has warped the game from being a good entry level game with depth to a 40K clone.

In my opinion from what I've seen the game balance seems to have gone out the window so I'm not surprised by your reactions and I think they are justified.

Regardless of how nice the new cards look the game has been warped into Warfare on a grid with terrible LOS rules and in my opinion a pointless dice change.


Loophole Master wrote:
Frankly, for me this offers a great stopping point. I have a lot of great Dust stuff, and I was running out of space to store it all, and more units than I can use regularly. I'm happy with my collection, so if the next units don't have rules that I can use, then I just don't get them. No big deal.


I bought up the models I was missing for my Axis and Allied armies recently after seeing and completely disagreeing with the "new" rules and changes and I think I'll also stop here as well which is a real shame.



I had my doubts when Battlefront took over Dust Tactics but at this point it has been cemented completely. Even just them simply removing the thematic "Jump" from the Pounder and nerfing the Ludwig into the ground makes me cringe at what will happen to every other model in the new rules.



I will keep my eye on how things develop and enjoy a casual game with FFGs rules in the meantime but I really believe BF has just nailed all but the last nail in Dust Tactics/Warfares coffin.



This post can't end in such a depressing way..... Oh I know.





the oinly way this post can end in a depressing way is if BF GW's BGG and the force them to pull it . i WILL keep going , and i WILL keep first ed alive , so subscribe , the more the merrier
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K G
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braveheart101 wrote:
Also, quite a few people have been banned from the official Dust Tactics Facebook page in the past couple months, and had all of their posts deleted. Blech. Remember when the prospects for this game were looking bright? I really hope that BF pulls out of this hideous slump ASAP.


and as i discovered tonight , when i went to facebook to check PM's , the fan page is NO on my "groups" tab anymore , so I AM BANNED TO i guess oh well .
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K G
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MaximumDT wrote:



Instead there have been some arguably terrible videos on BeastsOfWar, the "best" of them is this one.

On their site they hired some women to dress up as characters and play a game of Dust Tactics!



This sounded cool until you load up the above video and all it is is a song attached to a fast forwarded session for just under 3 minutes. Talk about a missed opportunity in more ways than one. shake



.


oh ....its worse than that , they didnt HIRE these girls , these are COSPLAYERS from the pheonix area that rickivaniseck knows , who dressed up for HIS world expo LAST YEAR , he even got them to pose for picture spreads and custom cards . Paolo attended , and was super impressed , so now rick is like his pet #1 fan , and head of the DDI .
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and in regards to my blog , i will be going through and and deleting some of the unneeded posts , and kullinging it down to just the good stuff that helps keep this game going !

here is a preview of one of my upcoming projects : modular craters

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/images/user/39291
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GrandInquisitorKris wrote:
while i know you and i butt heads alot , you could always follow my blog , and see what i come up with for the new units .

Thanks, but my point is that I don't need any new units, I already have more than I can comfortably use in my games. So at this point I have a very cool game with lots of diverse units. No reason to get worked up over new units not being compatible with the game I like.
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K G
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Loophole Master wrote:
GrandInquisitorKris wrote:
while i know you and i butt heads alot , you could always follow my blog , and see what i come up with for the new units .

Thanks, but my point is that I don't need any new units, I already have more than I can comfortably use in my games. So at this point I have a very cool game with lots of diverse units. No reason to get worked up over new units not being compatible with the game I like.


no , i understand that , as i dont need new units either , but that doesnt mean niether of us will see a cool new unit that one of us might want , just to spice it up a bit , and keep the game a bit more alive for us all .

and tell violeta that a girl "wargamer's" perspective is always interesting , so she is more than welcome to chime in aswell
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GrandInquisitorKris wrote:
and in regards to my blog , i will be going through and and deleting some of the unneeded posts , and kullinging it down to just the good stuff that helps keep this game going !

here is a preview of one of my upcoming projects : modular craters

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/images/user/39291


Given the last round of changes (gridless Tactics?!!!!), I am considering sticking with 1st Edition Tactics.

Am I missing something...as your most recent blog entry seems to be 2012?
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