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Fireteam Zero» Forums » General

Subject: Whats up with the map tiles? rss

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Raymond Morehouse
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I'm really interested in this game, but the map tile system puts me off.

It appears in all the video walk-throughs that EVERY tile is made up of a central space that is completely surrounded by other spaces. This means that standing in the middle of a tile would make you adjacent to every space on the tile. This would go for EVERY tile. Not very interesting, to say the least, from a tactical perspective.

It seems that this is going to get really, really boring.

Am I missing something here?
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Raf Cordero
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Soldier wrote:
I'm really interested in this game, but the map tile system puts me off.

It appears in all the video walk-throughs that EVERY tile is made up of a central space that is completely surrounded by other spaces. This means that standing in the middle of a tile would make you adjacent to every space on the tile. This would go for EVERY tile. Not very interesting, to say the least, from a tactical perspective.

It seems that this is going to get really, really boring.

Am I missing something here?


I'm not the developers, but I've been following the comments since the beginning. If I'm remembering correctly, EG has stated that the tiles you see in the video are prototype tiles that they used primarily to make sure that each monster family was balanced against itself. The "real" tiles are going to offer much more from a tactical and variety perspective. If you look at the picture on the KS home page that has the 4 heroes standing together, you can see some map tiles in the background that are very different from the "center space adjacent to everything". Additionally, there are going to be indoor, underground, etc map tiles for different missions to increase variety.
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Raymond Morehouse
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Well if that's the case, I'd have to see the actual tiles before I buy anything. The mini's look great, but I want a game to go with them!
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Raf Cordero
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Soldier wrote:
Well if that's the case, I'd have to see the actual tiles before I buy anything. The mini's look great, but I want a game to go with them!


I hear you! This is the only big miniature game I've ever backed precisely because it looks like they've actually created a very solid game to go with it, and the fact that they're giving out all of the 3D models and art assets for people to create custom stuff easily is really cool.

Hopefully they post some pictures of other map tiles soon, in the meantime there is a draft version of the rule book on the main page of the KS if you want to check out the gameplay. They've had the draft rulebook up for a while, especially compared to some of the other recent KS's, which gives me a good feeling.
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Aaron Phillips
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captainraffi wrote:
Soldier wrote:
Well if that's the case, I'd have to see the actual tiles before I buy anything. The mini's look great, but I want a game to go with them!


I hear you! This is the only big miniature game I've ever backed precisely because it looks like they've actually created a very solid game to go with it, and the fact that they're giving out all of the 3D models and art assets for people to create custom stuff easily is really cool.

Hopefully they post some pictures of other map tiles soon, in the meantime there is a draft version of the rule book on the main page of the KS if you want to check out the gameplay. They've had the draft rulebook up for a while, especially compared to some of the other recent KS's, which gives me a good feeling.


Also, for being a draft, the rulebook is surprisingly polished. I spotted a lot fewer grammatical/structural errors that I usually see in draft books. It looked clear, concise, and well structured. Also, it looked like the game it described would be awesome.
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Raymond Morehouse
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A quick read-through of the rule book leaves me with the impression that this is an ever-so-slightly-more-complex re-theme of Mice and Mystics. That is not a slight; I love M&M, but it is not the most interesting tactical game.

The difference would be if those dang tiles were more complicated...
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Raf Cordero
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Soldier wrote:
A quick read-through of the rule book leaves me with the impression that this is an ever-so-slightly-more-complex re-theme of Mice and Mystics. That is not a slight; I love M&M, but it is not the most interesting tactical game.

The difference would be if those dang tiles were more complicated...


I can see where you get that feeling. Without knowing more about the abilities cards, it's hard to say whether that impression is correct or not. It does seem like there are going to be much more difficult choices than in M&M though. If you use powerful tactic cards, you don't get to draw up leaving you very vulnerable to attack. Apparently there are concepts of suppression fire to pin monsters and control the battlefield as well, and I think cover and difficult terrain as well.

We'll, see. Maybe EG will chime in on this thread with more details . We're also supposed to get more gameplay videos over the next couple of days.
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Mike Langlois
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Hi Everybody!

There is a lot of variety in the map grids, even across tiles in the same terrain set. This prototype set is using our base grid for balance testing across the monster families (we consider it our 'plain' grid), so that the distance between points is uniform between sectors.

That won't always be the case

If you are curious, there is an old shot on our Facebook page from last year that shows some of the other sector grid patterns.

This is an early pic without the terrain imagery, but you can see the grid:

http://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9...

Grids are being optimized all the time for the various tile sets, so this exact pattern may not appear in the final game, but it should give you an idea of what kinds of things you'll see.

Hope that helps!

Mike
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Julien Le Jeune
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I'd advise you to show actual tiles artwork ASAP as I, too, am on the fence because of the poor tile shown in the video.
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Raymond Morehouse
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Mike! Thanks so much for joining the discussion!

The tiles in the picture you just posted look to have the same "problem" from a tactical perspective. Most spaces are either adjacent or a single space away, which given the current rulebook is pretty much meaningless.

In the layout in the picture, it would only take 2 turns to go from one end of three tiles to the other and by the beginning of the second turn nearly every tile is within one space.

Also, with the asymetrical space layout, how would ranged attacks be measured? I can't help but think of M&M where range is reduced to "everywhere on the tile"...

Looking forward to the ACTUAL tiles ASAP
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Mike Langlois
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Hi Raymond,

Long post incoming!

Distance to target is an interesting topic in FTZ, and something we spend a lot of time thinking about. In a lot of tactical games, the prime consideration is the ability to put damage on the enemy, limited primarily by distance and line of sight.

In FTZ, we shift that a bit. The ability to do damage within a combat round is a resource (cards in hand) and that resource is shared with your health (also cards in hand). Being able to take the shot is still very important, but the what (which and how many cards) takes precedence over how (range/line of sight).

In addition, distance to target for us is more than distance to enemy, but also distance to ally hero and distance to Specialist NPC. So, imagine a network of distances for each Hero:

Hero to mobs in range (note hero ranges are generally 0-1)
Hero to Specialist (Specialist area of effect is adjacent or 1)
Hero to other Hero (Reaction range is generally 0-2)

From a tactical perspective, you are engaged in a moving firefight inside a swarm. The only 'safe' areas are the ones you make for yourself each round. Distance is more of a priority mechanism, since pretty much anything can reach you in a turn or two.

The decisions in a round are about which monsters to hit and which to leave alive to hit you, what resources to consume, what spawn points to secure, which to search, and where to position the Specialists. We also throw in the requirements for completing the objectives.

Because FTZ is a man-on-a-board type of game, I think comparisons to games like Descent or M&M are natural, but the actual gameplay for FTZ is very different.

It's much more like trying to operate in a pressure cooker, where your immediate surroundings and relationship in space to other heroes, monsters, and spawn points combined with your card managment is where the tactical considerations come in. It plays much differently than long distances and line of sight with disconnected attack and health pools.

I'm not sure if this makes a lot of sense without playing But the ranges to target do matter, and most things are out of range at a given moment to a given player (unless you are about to get dogpiled).

Even the 'plain' grid works well in this environment, because the big decisions aren't about getting from A-B, but rather not dying while at A.

I'll try to get some good video from DGM on Saturday which should help out a lot.

Mike

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Raymond Morehouse
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Thanks! Thats very helpful. I look forward to seeing how this develops!
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Kurt Bieberbach
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Good description Mike, thank you! It's like every turn is an ever changing tactical puzzle that you have to solve as efficiently as possible. And the puzzle is trying to bite your face off!
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Raf Cordero
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I like what I'm hearing Can't wait to hear back from the marathon games.
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Raf Cordero
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For those who aren't subscribed to the game, here is a one of the map tiles.

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You may call me
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I hope more tiles show up and even tile setups. Right now, they seem very modest compared to the competition. I really need them to be the thing that convinces me because I'm still on the fence here. There are a lot of similar (minis battling monsters) games coming out lately...
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Raf Cordero
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Logus Vile wrote:
I hope more tiles show up and even tile setups. Right now, they seem very modest compared to the competition. I really need them to be the thing that convinces me because I'm still on the fence here. There are a lot of similar (minis battling monsters) games coming out lately...


If you haven't seen this review yet, it might give you an idea of how it's different. Some additional small points in the comments.

http://boardgamegeek.com/article/15299699#15299699
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