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Subject: Metal Torchbearer Mini, or, Why the #$%& Did You Do That, Mercs? rss

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David Hoffman
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Okay.

My game just arrived. Very nice and all that.

But the Torchbearer figure is, as I'm sure many of us are aware by this time, a metal mini.

Not a plastic mini.

And it's not assembled.

The figure isn't on its base, there's a little backpack which has to be attached, and there's, frankly, a surprising number of little metal pointy bits sticking out this way and that. The sprue? Do metal minis have sprues? There's a lot of it.

I've read the explanations, that tooling for metal is cheaper, etc., etc., but I have to say . . . seriously?

Is anything else going to be metal? How about for Recon? Because I don't think I remember seeing anything during the original KS campaign about this mini being metal.

And frankly, it pisses me off.

Yes, there's a lot to like here. Which sort of underlines my being pissed off. Because either there's ONE mini that's metal and ALLLLLL the rest of them are plastic -- or there's MORE metal coming my way.

Either way, it sucks.

It sucks (for me) because I'm not a minis guy. I've got no interest in assembling minis, much less painting them. I don't have whatever fancy glue I need to get this guy's backpack to stay on, or to get him to stay in on his stand. Sure, I can get some glue, and deal with that, but why do I have to?

Did I miss an announcement during the KS campaign? This wouldn't have kept me from backing, but I have to repeat that it really pisses me off. Maybe the minis folks are overjoyed to have a fancy metal mini, but for me, this thing is useless. Firstly, as an OCD gamer -- like so many here -- having ONE metal mini out of the whole game is just . . . wrong.

And hearing that this was done, basically, as a cost-cutting measure? The alleged explanation that the tooling for metal is cheaper than tooling for plastic . . . well, that just sucks. I mean, was the tooling for ONE more mini going to bankrupt the project? I am perfectly happy to have the people who make the games I love make money. I don't want Mercs to take a hit or anything, but seeking savings for ONE mini?

Am I alone in this? I'd read about the metal Torchbearer and was holding back judgement until I had it in my hands. Now that I do . . . well, I think I mentioned above that it pisses me off, right?

I'm curious if there are any plans to offer this as a plastic mini at some point in the future? You know, to match EVERY OTHER MINI IN THE WHOLE GAME. Or, as I've already asked again, am I going to be "surprised" when the rest of the KS extras arrive and a few more are metal?

I'd really like to know. I checked the forums and didn't see another bitchy thread like this one (or I would have just posted there). I think this is important (it is to me, anyway), and I'd like to see an answer. If nothing else, it'll help me decide if I want to hold onto my Recon pledge or not. Seriously. If we're going to get more metal when we're expecting plastic, I'd just assume find out about it now than wait until the rest of the stuff starts arriving in a month or so.

What's up, Mercs? Why'd you do this thing to us, and are you going to do it again?
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Donny Behne
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ohbalto wrote:


What's up, Mercs? Why'd you do this stupid, stupid thing to us, and are you going to do it again?


You might want to consider a more open minded inquiry rather than an aggressive, close minded one. Its more likely to get an answer and the subsequent exchange is more likely to be friendly and not...well whatever it is that you wrote. The only crap so far is your attitude about it.
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Executive Bear
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You don't have any superglue?

Also what about just priming all the hero miniatures and allies? Easy enough and they are all the same color then.

Also calm down, take a couple deep breaths.
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Connor Kirk
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I can see why you are frustrated. I too like to have uniform materials for my miniatures, and if I were to not paint my figures (which I will), I would be irritated as well.

However,

The Torch Bearer is not necessary to play the game, nor is he a playable character at all. He was also free, a token for participating in the kickstarter, so why not put him on a shelf or something as a trophy for the game.

Or you could sell it on eBay for some money, maybe not a whole lot, but it's still an option

Like I said, it's annoying, but I think it's easily forgotten about, after all you still have a really cool game to play.
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Dan Gillis
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That's a whole lot of complaining for paying a whole lot of nothing for this mini.

Torchbearer was simply a free gift for a stretch goal. He has a purpose but it is not a gamechanger. I suppose the only way you could get upset would be that one stretch goal slot was taken by something that did not hold up to your expectations.

Aargh. I realized I just fed something.

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David Hoffman
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I think I did mention that I'm pissed about this, right?

But, in the interest of dialog . . . I will edit that last line (the "stupid, stupid" was originally in the title, btw).

I'd like to get an answer, however: why they did this and will there be any more "surprises". Even if the answer is, "crap, we're minis guys and we thought everyone would be overjoyed," y'know?
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kelann08 wrote:
[q="ohbalto"]

The only crap so far is your attitude about it.


ez there killer
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Magic Pink
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Because it's a free metal mini and that's how metal minis usually are. The flash is easily removed then you just glue it together. If you don't want it, toss it or sell it.

I'm more concerned that they sent the mini without the rules or card to use it. They should have just held it until they had it all.

But this is absolutely nothing to be upset over.
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Vance VanGogh
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I am also curious what, if any, of the second wave stuff will also be metal.
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David Hoffman
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Magic Pink wrote:
Because it's a free metal mini and that's how metal minis usually are. The flash is easily removed then you just glue it together. If you don't want it, toss it or sell it.

I'm more concerned that they sent the mini without the rules or card to use it. They should have just held it until they had it all.

But this is absolutely nothing to be upset over.


Let's try that again: was there some notation somewhere that the mini was going to be metal? Did I completely miss this notation? If not . . . that's what I"m pissed about. Am I alone? Am I the only OCD gamer who supported this game? More to the point . . . are there going to be more metal minis coming at us in the future?

Also, DrWhoWho, that quote isn't me -- it was directed at me, FYI.
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Shawn Stauffer
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I don't mind it at all. In fact if the guys from Mercs want to put more metal minis in my shipment I would be more than happy to assemble them...
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Magic Pink
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JimbobJones wrote:
ta;dr (Too angry; didn't read)

BTW, everyone saying how this is "free" is wrong as well. You paid for it as part of the KS. It's like saying that when you buy the game at retail, you're only paying for the first figure, and the rest are "free".


It's a matter of interpretation. They added a free mini as a thanks to us so while normally I would agree this time it really seems like they dug into their profits to give us extra. So "free".

Also your metaphor is ridiculously bad.
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Magic Pink
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ohbalto wrote:
Magic Pink wrote:
Because it's a free metal mini and that's how metal minis usually are. The flash is easily removed then you just glue it together. If you don't want it, toss it or sell it.

I'm more concerned that they sent the mini without the rules or card to use it. They should have just held it until they had it all.

But this is absolutely nothing to be upset over.


Let's try that again: was there some notation somewhere that the mini was going to be metal? Did I completely miss this notation? If not . . . that's what I"m pissed about. Am I alone? Am I the only OCD gamer who supported this game? More to the point . . . are there going to be more metal minis coming at us in the future?

Also, DrWhoWho, that quote isn't me -- it was directed at me, FYI.


It was mentioned somewhere but I don't remember specifically where.

And yes, you're pretty much alone in this so far. Why is it so bad that's it's the onoy metal one? It's supposed to be a trophy of thanks to us and thus be special. That's WHY it's different. Think of it as a medal.
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Julian St. Pierre
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You don't have OCD. Shut up and get over it. Seriously, what an insignificant thing to complain about.
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Mike Miller

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I don't think it was stated, and I do think that the implication was plastic - BUT - I can totally see why they did it.

ohbalto wrote:
The alleged explanation that the tooling for metal is cheaper than tooling for plastic . . . well, that just sucks. I mean, was the tooling for ONE more mini going to bankrupt the project?


It's the difference of several thousand a mold vs a couple hundred. For a one time exclusive figure, this is probably the way any mini company will do it, and Megacon has stated that they are focused on making miniature games, not board games with minis.

Obviously, for those of us that work with metal minis all the time, no big deal. I can't say how I'd feel about it without that experience, because I already have that experience and can't unwind myself from it.

I think though, that maybe the way to approach it (for a non-hobbyist) is to buy the minimum materials required (some zap-a-gap or other superglue and an exacto knife) and just think of it as any new experience, see if you like it. Hobby games are super fun, they give you something creative to pour some energy into. If you end up not liking it, no big deal.

Since the mercs minis are rather detailed, it might also be a good time to consider throwing down a coat or two of paint, even if just to distinguish from melee and ranged Crawlers. You never know, you might really take to the hobby.

EDIT: personally, I liked it. Nice surprise.
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Rob Davis
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The good news is that once the stretch goals start hitting retail, you'll be able to buy metal minis for all of your Heroes and then the universe will be OK again.
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David Hoffman
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pinkymadigan wrote:
I don't think it was stated, and I do think that the implication was plastic - BUT - I can totally see why they did it.

ohbalto wrote:
The alleged explanation that the tooling for metal is cheaper than tooling for plastic . . . well, that just sucks. I mean, was the tooling for ONE more mini going to bankrupt the project?


It's the difference of several thousand a mold vs a couple hundred. For a one time exclusive figure, this is probably the way any mini company will do it, and Megacon has stated that they are focused on making miniature games, not board games with minis.

Obviously, for those of us that work with metal minis all the time, no big deal. I can't say how I'd feel about it without that experience, because I already have that experience and can't unwind myself from it.

I think though, that maybe the way to approach it (for a non-hobbyist) is to buy the minimum materials required (some zap-a-gap or other superglue and an exacto knife) and just think of it as any new experience, see if you like it. Hobby games are super fun, they give you something creative to pour some energy into. If you end up not liking it, no big deal.

Since the mercs minis are rather detailed, it might also be a good time to consider throwing down a coat or two of paint, even if just to distinguish from melee and ranged Crawlers. You never know, you might really take to the hobby.


This will, literally, never happen. My hands are not made for fine detail work. At all. I glued my Space Hulk minis and screwed up a number of them. Super Dungeon Explore took forever and would have worked better just as random bits of plastic on the board. Some people are bad at some things and I will never, ever be a minis person.

People's reactions, thus far, are not surprising to me in the least. S'okay. I certainly understand that Mercs' origins are as a minis company, but to me, a boardgamer, the metal mini stands out terribly. I've got the cardboard flattening under books right now (oh, warping) but once that's done I'll take the rest of the game for a spin.

I would still like to know if there's more metal coming our way.
 
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Mike Miller

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Also, I would bank on any exclusive figure being metal, just due to the mold cost difference. It's simply not practical to produce a mold for a plastic limited run figure.
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I will make it easy for you tell me how much you pledged. I will send you a check plus shipping and you send me everything. PROBLEM SOLVED
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ohbalto wrote:
pinkymadigan wrote:
I don't think it was stated, and I do think that the implication was plastic - BUT - I can totally see why they did it.

ohbalto wrote:
The alleged explanation that the tooling for metal is cheaper than tooling for plastic . . . well, that just sucks. I mean, was the tooling for ONE more mini going to bankrupt the project?


It's the difference of several thousand a mold vs a couple hundred. For a one time exclusive figure, this is probably the way any mini company will do it, and Megacon has stated that they are focused on making miniature games, not board games with minis.

Obviously, for those of us that work with metal minis all the time, no big deal. I can't say how I'd feel about it without that experience, because I already have that experience and can't unwind myself from it.

I think though, that maybe the way to approach it (for a non-hobbyist) is to buy the minimum materials required (some zap-a-gap or other superglue and an exacto knife) and just think of it as any new experience, see if you like it. Hobby games are super fun, they give you something creative to pour some energy into. If you end up not liking it, no big deal.

Since the mercs minis are rather detailed, it might also be a good time to consider throwing down a coat or two of paint, even if just to distinguish from melee and ranged Crawlers. You never know, you might really take to the hobby.


This will, literally, never happen. My hands are not made for fine detail work. At all. I glued my Space Hulk minis and screwed up a number of them. Super Dungeon Explore took forever and would have worked better just as random bits of plastic on the board. Some people are bad at some things and I will never, ever be a minis person.

People's reactions, thus far, are not surprising to me in the least. S'okay. I certainly understand that Mercs' origins are as a minis company, but to me, a boardgamer, the metal mini stands out terribly. I've got the cardboard flattening under books right now (oh, warping) but once that's done I'll take the rest of the game for a spin.

I would still like to know if there's more metal coming our way.


Well, if you've already dabbled, yeah.

That's too bad. I expect you will also be disappointed with the rest of the KS exclusives.

As an alternative idea - how about taking them to your FLGS and seeing if anyone will do the gluing for you? I'm sure most fellow gamers will do it very cheap if not free if you approach them with the right attitude.
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David Hoffman
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pinkymadigan wrote:
Also, I would bank on any exclusive figure being metal, just due to the mold cost difference. It's simply not practical to produce a mold for a plastic limited run figure.


If that's the case, I think Mercs needs to tell us about it NOW.
 
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ohbalto wrote:
pinkymadigan wrote:
Also, I would bank on any exclusive figure being metal, just due to the mold cost difference. It's simply not practical to produce a mold for a plastic limited run figure.


If that's the case, I think Mercs needs to tell us about it NOW.


It is usually incumbent on the investor to ask questions of the company they are investing in. If you want that answer, I suggest you ask Megacon. However, like I said, I don't see anyway it would make sense for them to do a limited run in plastic. Almost an impossibility.
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To the best of my knowledge, he is the only metal mini unless you ordered the optional minis.

And yes it was free and wasn't free.

I can both sides of that debate.

In the end though, he is not needed to play the game.
He's a little bonus.

If you don't like him, I'll tell ya what, pm me.
I'll pay the postage and you can send I'm my way.
I imagine I'll make use of him, and then you won't have an optional token mini that doesn't match the rest of your set.
Sincere offer by the way.

I can understand being upset about it .
But I'm not sure this much.

I'd say if he bugs you that bad give him away.
Or if you don't feel right giving it away, list it on eBay.
You might get a couple bucks for it.
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Donny Behne
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ohbalto wrote:


This will, literally, never happen. My hands are not made for fine detail work. At all. I glued my Space Hulk minis and screwed up a number of them. Super Dungeon Explore took forever and would have worked better just as random bits of plastic on the board. Some people are bad at some things and I will never, ever be a minis person.

People's reactions, thus far, are not surprising to me in the least. S'okay. I certainly understand that Mercs' origins are as a minis company, but to me, a boardgamer, the metal mini stands out terribly. I've got the cardboard flattening under books right now (oh, warping) but once that's done I'll take the rest of the game for a spin.

I would still like to know if there's more metal coming our way.


You get better with practice. Eventually your hands stop shaking and you learn some tricks like balancing with an extra finger. There is also slow drying super glue that gives you more time to get the piece into the just right position. Last resort, find an FLGS that supports miniatures gaming. No self-respecting minis gamer shows up without a spare bottle of glue in case something breaks. I'd wager, if you asked nicely, they would glue it for you - base and all.
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