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Subject: ChaosPinata [Deck] rss

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Artifice Knight
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So, Bad Publicity gave a talk, and displayed one of their decklists-A Kate Deck based around getting the most expensive and efficient icebreakers out as quickly as possible.

The similarities to a Chaos Theory deck I'd been working on were close enough I figured this was a good as time as any to share my list before making changes based on thoughts in the article (and whatever you ladies and gentleman would share here).

Without further ado...

ChaosPinata (40 card deck)

Chaos Theory:Wunderkind

Events (17):

x3 Retrieval Run ***** *
x3 Sure Gamble
x2 Quality Time
x3 Eureka!
x3 Test Run
x3 Scavenge

Hardware (7):

x2 Prepaid VoicePAD
x2 Plascrete Carapace
x3 The Personal Touch

Icebreakers (3):

x1 Torch
x1 Morning Star ****
x1 Garrote ***

Resources (13):

x2 Aesop's Pawnshop
x3 Motivation
x3 Armitage Codebusting
x3 Daily Casts
x2 Kati Jones


Unlike the article, my coming around to this deck was an attempt to play with Monolith. Astute readers will notice that its no longer in the deck.

That said, Eureka+Motivation+Test Run did prove super effective in getting a lot of the expensive ice I had in the game out without costing me much at all, which soon became the baseline form of the deck you see above.

Where this deck shines though is being able to cheaply run on even expensive ice. You can assemble relatively quickly and can destroy anything in front of you.

Program destruction is occasionally an issue, but ultimately between test run and retrieval run I can get it back and installed for cheaper then it took to get rid of it.

Biggest frustrations are hitting a Hiemdall 2.0. This or an over-advanced icewall or the like can kill your ability to make runs, and personal touches don't always come fast enough to take care of it. I've considered replicator to get them faster or even Helpful AI for an important boost on a critical turn, but neither feel like great solutions. Datasuckers also an option, but then I'd need to get the memory somewhere.

Money tends not to be an issue. Between Armitage, Daily Casts and Kati jones you are getting a fairly decent chunk, and Aesops can eat additional Motivations or the last two creds from an armitage. If really pressed you can just raw-install one of your breakers, but in the dozen or so games that's only happened once.

Prepaid VoicePAD really doesn't need to be in the deck, I like it becuase it can help make playing events (which I have a handful of) easier. Likely going to swap it out for Oracle May once H&P hits.

Retrieval Run and some of the other install tricks turn into dead draws after your rig is in place. Not sure how to remedy that though, since you nened to guarantee getting your rig up and going.

Any other thoughts? I'd love the input.
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Mike Nunes
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ArtificeKnight wrote:
So, Bad Publicity gave a talk, and displayed one of their decklists-A Kate Deck based around getting the most expensive and efficient icebreakers out as quickly as possible.

The similarities to a Chaos Theory deck I'd been working on were close enough I figured this was a good as time as any to share my list before making changes based on thoughts in the article (and whatever you ladies and gentleman would share here).

Without further ado...

ChaosPinata (40 card deck)

Chaos Theory:Wunderkind

Events (17):

x3 Retrieval Run ***** *
x3 Sure Gamble
x2 Quality Time
x3 Eureka!
x3 Test Run
x3 Scavenge

Hardware (7):

x2 Prepaid VoicePAD
x2 Plascrete Carapace
x3 The Personal Touch

Icebreakers (3):

x1 Torch
x1 Morning Star ****
x1 Garrote ***

Resources (13):

x2 Aesop's Pawnshop


x3 Motivation
x3 Armitage Codebusting
x3 Daily Casts
x2 Kati Jones


Unlike the article, my coming around to this deck was an attempt to play with Monolith. Astute readers will notice that its no longer in the deck.

That said, Eureka+Motivation+Test Run did prove super effective in getting a lot of the expensive ice I had in the game out without costing me much at all, which soon became the baseline form of the deck you see above.

Where this deck shines though is being able to cheaply run on even expensive ice. You can assemble relatively quickly and can destroy anything in front of you.

Program destruction is occasionally an issue, but ultimately between test run and retrieval run I can get it back and installed for cheaper then it took to get rid of it.

Biggest frustrations are hitting a Hiemdall 2.0. This or an over-advanced icewall or the like can kill your ability to make runs, and personal touches don't always come fast enough to take care of it. I've considered replicator to get them faster or even Helpful AI for an important boost on a critical turn, but neither feel like great solutions. Datasuckers also an option, but then I'd need to get the memory somewhere.

Money tends not to be an issue. Between Armitage, Daily Casts and Kati jones you are getting a fairly decent chunk, and Aesops can eat additional Motivations or the last two creds from an armitage. If really pressed you can just raw-install one of your breakers, but in the dozen or so games that's only happened once.

Prepaid VoicePAD really doesn't need to be in the deck, I like it becuase it can help make playing events (which I have a handful of) easier. Likely going to swap it out for Oracle May once H&P hits.

Retrieval Run and some of the other install tricks turn into dead draws after your rig is in place. Not sure how to remedy that though, since you nened to guarantee getting your rig up and going.

Any other thoughts? I'd love the input.


If you don't want the Prepaid voicepads, you can snag Dino to host that Morning Star instead.
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Nushura
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I would remove the 3 Eureka/Motivation cards. I never liked the combo since it costs a lot of clicks to set up, and (disregarding the cost of Motivation) you have to pay 3 clicks+3 credits to save at most 9 credits (morning star) and 2 clicks (draw+install). Compare this to the benefit of Test Run/Scavenge which tutors the card and is easier to set up....or simply draw and play modded.

More importantly, in your deck you have only 3 programs and already have NINE ways to install them for cheap. A bit of overkill? At least remove the Motivation card and combine the Eureka with test runs?

Have you thought of removing them and adding diesels to further help with the draw? Or Professional Contacts?
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Artifice Knight
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I actually never considered Dinosaur. I dislike having to wait for the console to be installed first and then re hosting, but considering with Scavenge I can destroy and re install Morning Star into the Dinosaurus for free, that is something to consider.

And as to Motivation, I find it doing a couple of things for me. One, obviously, is the combo with Eureka (and if I manage to play two Eureka's off one motivation, even more bonus). It lets me save the occasional test run if I notice that I'm about to draw into it anyway, which can be nice to save the scavenge+testrun combo for later.

Another use is Aesops. With Motivation, its a 0 cost item that can be eaten by Aesops for 3 creds. Thats a delayed action Easy Mark right there, helping get economy going in addition to Motivations other uses.

Finally, I like having information about what is coming. Knowing the top card means you know what you can expect soon-if you are going to get a hedge fund, you might hold off playing daily casts until you can draw and use it. Or if you see that its a non-helpful card, that might make a good excuse to play test run now as opposed to drawing up your hand first.


That said, I do have a little overkill on how to install my stuff. I may drop a motivation for a diesel to speed things up, or swap my influence out. They're good thoughts.
 
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Rafał Cywicki
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And apart from running cheaply, what is the plan for the long game?

If you just intend to run every turn you might find that you spend more than you gain. Each Tollbooth still costs you 5 to run. Each archer still costs 8. Shapers have great way to make those runs count - Escher, R&D Interface - you might find they are worth their deckspace.

And never mind Heimdall, Hardian Wall (or Curtain Wall for that matter) would shut this deck fast

I agree that Dino would be a nice addition. And you can always scavenge the Morning Star later - mitigates the need to have dino early.
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Hans Otterson
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Um...Your three mega-breakers total up to 5 MU. You have no way to boost your MU in this deck. Luckily, it's not hard (throw some Akamatsus in there, probably instead of Motivation), but as it is this deck doesn't do what it is intended to do.
 
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Cedric Bertolini
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hans otterson wrote:
Um...Your three mega-breakers total up to 5 MU. You have no way to boost your MU in this deck. Luckily, it's not hard (throw some Akamatsus in there, probably instead of Motivation), but as it is this deck doesn't do what it is intended to do.

Read Chaos Theory better
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Bryan Gerding
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Tried this icebreaker build against my girlfriend.

Wotan...

I didn't stand a chance.
 
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Conor Hickey
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HeirToPendragon wrote:
Tried this icebreaker build against my girlfriend.

Wotan...

I didn't stand a chance.


Wotan is unique - obviously you're shut out of one of HQ, R&D and a remote, still leaves plenty of places to find agendas.

Personally I would add a Femme to this deck to cover Wotan or a Tollbooth I'm going to have to go through a lot, but then you need a source of more MU.

In the decklist above I'd take out the VoicePADs and put in a couple Akamatsu.
 
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Hans Otterson
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I am a fucking idiot. Came back to delete my post before the world could see--actually woke up out of full sleep realizing it--and I was too late. That's what I get for never playing Shaper.
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Grzegorz Pijas
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This looks like one of the cardgamedb decks.
They have some idea behind the deck but they are making awful decks..
This one looks ok other then no multiaccess?
You wanna run whole game for 1 card?
 
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Cedric Bertolini
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HeirToPendragon wrote:
Tried this icebreaker build against my girlfriend.

Wotan...

I didn't stand a chance.

The exact same thing happened to me. Wotan on remote. I have a Corroder, no ES, no Parasite, nothing. Wotan alone costs 12 credits to pass. Behind it, a Heimdall, and then a Ash. I could have Eschered it away, but it would still have blocked a server. Game quickly over.
 
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Joey Schulte
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Or you could just hit all of the subroutines on Wotan when you suspect an agenda and reinstall whatever program your trash with your extra retrieval runs...
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Joey Schulte
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I just wanted to say that I really, really like Retrieval Run in this deck. I think it's a great way to put pressure on archives that most Chaos decks don't do, not to mention a cheap way to clone chip your programs back into play if they get trashed. I've also always wanted to try Morning Star, but never have. I may try a build, but I want to try it w/ Dino. Afraid of the tempo hit though, not to mention not being able to use Personal Touches until the morning star gets on Dino. I guess you could always Levy. I wonder if you could make Opus work if running Dino. Probably not due to yet another tempo hit. I like your resource econ a lot too. Excellent use of your extra Motivations.
 
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Chris Long
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This makes me want to build an Exile deck with Freelance Coding Contract and Retrieval run to put all the expensive stuff into play.
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Aleksander Ornaf
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I have a similar deck. Instead of Morning Star I use Battering Ram. It's a little less efficient, but can be boosted, and gives you 4 more influence to work with. It also saves you 3 deck space when you take out Personal Touch.

Maybe you could put in The Source, to slow down rush/FA decks while you set up your rig. Or RDI for a better late game finish.
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Brodie
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I think Motivation is blah. The deck reads more like it'd either Test Run breakers and aim to Scavenge them (or Eureka! them next turn), or draw like mad with Quality Time and throw them away, then Retrieval Run. Therefore I say swap 3x Motivation with 3x Diesel.

I prefer Dirty Laundry to Prepaid VoicePAD. I also sorta question why Aesop's, since it looks like you're only planning on selling Armitage, Daily Casts, and Motivations to it - probably a 2-4 credit bump from Armitage + Casts in a given game - more for the Motivations, but I already said I'd take those out. I'd look to replace Aesop's with something else. HQ Interface and/or R&D Interface seem like good fits - they let you do a lot with your efficient accesses. Right now it looks like you have the ability to bust into servers, but you could stand to hammer centrals harder.

Edit: Also, you're Shaper. You could always throw in 1x Escher, 1x Levy AR.
 
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joeymcjoeysalot wrote:
I just wanted to say that I really, really like Retrieval Run in this deck. I think it's a great way to put pressure on archives that most Chaos decks don't do, not to mention a cheap way to clone chip your programs back into play if they get trashed.


I don't understand this at all. How is playing Retrieval Run putting pressure on Archives? If one of the only three programs gets trashed and he is able to play retrieval run, that program is back into play, thus no pressure, just a combo that plays and ends without the Corp knowing about beforehand and trying to prevent it by diverting resources to it.

If another program gets trashed later, then sure, the corp might want to ice archives now, but at that point, it depends entirely on the gamestate whether or not it is a good decision for the Corp to do so - which it could well be if the ice is ETR of the type of breaker that got trashed, say. Still, for all the corp knows, the runner might not even play more than a single Retrieval Run or if not, still not have drawn the second etc etc.

That's not really pressure at all, pressure is the constant threat against a server that the corp is forced to deal with sooner rather than later (sneakdoor to get free acceses, datasucker + desperado for super efficiency, medium dig on R&D etc).
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Joey Schulte
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I'm just saying it gives a reason for the corp to spread it's defenses over archives in order to prevent future installs with retrieval run. Anything make the corp spend time and money on something it would rather not do, to me, is pressure.
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Artifice Knight
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ChaosPinata (40 card deck)

Chaos Theory:Wunderkind

Events (16):

x2 Retrieval Run ****
x3 Sure Gamble
x2 Quality Time
x3 Eureka!
x3 Test Run
x3 Scavenge

Hardware (6):

x2 Dinosaurus
x2 Plascrete Carapace
x2 R&D Interface

Icebreakers (5):

x1 Torch
x1 Morning Star ****
x1 Garrote ***
x2 Femme Fatale **

Resources (13):

x2 Aesop's Pawnshop
x3 Motivation
x3 Armitage Codebusting
x3 Daily Casts
x2 Kati Jones

Alright, reading over the topics, I've seen a lot of good suggestions. A lot of people are wanting me to tear out the Motivations (and I can't say without good reason. Being able to see the top card of your deck is of limited utility). I guess part of the reason is back in my younger days of Magic the Gathering, if there was one 'cheat' I'd find myself constant wanting to do, it was looking at the top card of my deck. See what was coming so I could plan for it. This turns Motivation into a bit of a security blanket, and in the above build I tried to keep it.

Dropped the Prepaid Voice ID and the personal touches in order to get Dinosaurus and a pair of Femme Fatales. WIth Dinosaurus its like two of Personal Touches, and while more ways of boosting strength are great, with Femme I can just shut down those few problematic bits of ice that Morning Star can't break through. And with Dinosaurus giving me some memory, I can actually use the extra icebreakers.

The reason for lowering one Retrieval Run instead of Eureka! is with this deck, motivation helps more. If I see that an R&D Interface or Dinosaurus is next and I don't need my Eureka! for installing programs, it saves me some trouble to install hardware-Click to draw and then Installing Dinosaurus would be Two clicks and 5 creds, while Eureka would shave 2 creds off that. Or 1 cred for R&D. Without the motivations, I would've left in a Retrieval Run and dropped a Eureka instead.


That said, I also decided to try and make a new deck, called...

Too Old for a Security Blanket (40 card deck)

Chaos Theory:Wunderkind

Events (21):

x3 Retrieval Run ***** *
x3 Sure Gamble
x2 Quality Time
x2 Eureka!
x3 Test Run
x3 Scavenge
x1 Escher
x2 Diesel
x2 Dirty Laundry

Hardware (6):

x2 Dinosaurus
x2 Plascrete Carapace
x2 R&D Interface

Icebreakers (5):

x1 Torch
x1 Morning Star ****
x1 Garrote ***
x2 Femme Fatale **

Resources (8):

x3 Armitage Codebusting
x3 Daily Casts
x2 Kati Jones

And in this deck, we try tossing out the security blanket I've come to call Motivation. With 3 motivations gone, this means the things I can reliably Aesops is... well, almost nothing, so those got pulled too. Two Dirty Laundry's tossed in to help boost economy, 2 diesels for speed, and one Escher just cause. Notably, also up to 15/15 influence.

Same Old Thing was a contender to help use those ever so important events, but ended up passing on it. Not sure how to use Levy AR Access for this particular deck though-most of my events are test runs/scavenge/retrieval run, which are limited use once my rig is installed.

Curious for those that dislike Motivation. My first deck found a few ways to use it-if Oracle May had been out to help combo with Motivation as well, would it still be terrible card?
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