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Subject: Vinhos vs Viticulture rss

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Adrian Walker
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I have a gaming partner who has told me in the past "Most games are good, so I'd rather play games with themes that I like"

We get Vinhos to the table as a 2-player game with some regularity.

Is Viticulture different enough that it is also worth getting, as a 2 player game primarily?

I have seen several posts comparing the two for initial purchase, but it doesn't seem like anyone has asked this specific question, hence why I have made a new topic.
 
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Bryan Thunkd
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They play much differently and don't have the same feel. Vinhos is much more complex.
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Salim Khoury
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intellismartness wrote:
I have a gaming partner who has told me in the past "Most games are good, so I'd rather play games with themes that I like"

We get Vinhos to the table as a 2-player game with some regularity.

Is Viticulture different enough that it is also worth getting, as a 2 player game primarily?

I have seen several posts comparing the two for initial purchase, but it doesn't seem like anyone has asked this specific question, hence why I have made a new topic.


Viticulture is a fairly straightforward WP game Vinhos is virtually an business/economic simulation. It's one of the heaviest games you'll likely encounter...The Heavyweights
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Scott Moore
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Comparing Vinhos and Viticulture is like comparing chalk and cheese. If you are a cheese-lover you'll go for the cheese (Vinhos) rather then eat chalk (Viticulture). Vinhos is thematic, whereas the theme in Viticulture is nonsense. But if theme does not matter, then it's more a question of weight and length of game. Viticulture is a good mid-weight worker placement game, whereas Vinhos is a heavyweight with (arguably) too many different game mechanisms.
 
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Matt Simpson
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There's theme in viticulture, with the buildings, wine aging, bottling and selling. Vinhos has more theme, but not the game I'd choose
 
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Scott Moore
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coldkorn wrote:
There's theme in viticulture, with the buildings, wine aging, bottling and selling. Vinhos has more theme, but not the game I'd choose


There's also thematic nonsense: ageing of grapes, harvest during winter, production of blush wines in Tuscany and using red and white grapes, production of sparkling wines using red and white grapes (yes, it happens, but most Tuscan sparkling wines are made using white grapes only), tour guides and oenologists and various other modern professionals visiting pre-modern Tuscany...Neither does the pricing or cellaring make much sense. The poor theme actually detracts from game play, because some aspects are counter intuitive.

Vinhos doesn't only have more theme, but most of the theme also makes sense.
 
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Bryan Thunkd
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janos_hunyadi wrote:
coldkorn wrote:
There's theme in viticulture, with the buildings, wine aging, bottling and selling. Vinhos has more theme, but not the game I'd choose


There's also thematic nonsense: ageing of grapes, harvest during winter, production of blush wines in Tuscany and using red and white grapes, production of sparkling wines using red and white grapes (yes, it happens, but most Tuscan sparkling wines are made using white grapes only), tour guides and oenologists and various other modern professionals visiting pre-modern Tuscany...Neither does the pricing or cellaring make much sense. The poor theme actually detracts from game play, because some aspects are counter intuitive.

Vinhos doesn't only have more theme, but most of the theme also makes sense.
I disagree that Vinhos has more theme. And there's a difference between a game having elements that don't make thematic sense and not having theme. If you want to pick nits the action selection mechanic in Vinhos doesn't make much thematic sense. Nor does the way they implement banking. Or any number of other little things.
 
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Scott Moore
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Thunkd wrote:
I disagree that Vinhos has more theme. And there's a difference between a game having elements that don't make thematic sense and not having theme. If you want to pick nits the action selection mechanic in Vinhos doesn't make much thematic sense. Nor does the way they implement banking. Or any number of other little things.


Well, I'm not really sure how you quantify theme, but my point remains that many of the thematic elements in Viticulture make no sense or are even nonsense. The action selection mechanic in Vinhos is not a thematic element but a game mechanic - it's sole purpose is to regulate game play. You could similarly argue that VPs don't make thematic sense. Again, they are not supposed to, but you've got to determine a winner somehow.

Yes, I agree there's a difference between elements that don't make thematic sense and not having theme. I'd argue the former is worse, especially when the thematic elements work against understanding the mechanics of the game. One example in Viticulture is grape ageing - this caused some confusion in a game I played yesterday. From a thematic point of view it is pure nonsense. The grape and wine ageing could have been changed to barrel ageing and bottle ageing - this would at least make some thematic sense. Another example, where the theme makes no sense in Viticulture is the ill-defined time period and geography (pre-modern wine-making yet with some modern professions, set in Tuscany but with a modern US style of wine and crushpads) - in this case it doesn't effect game play at all.
 
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