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Subject: Because "Never again" should mean something rss

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Moshe Callen
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The Israeli news service Arutz 7 reports this story citing the blog-post by Walid Shoebat and his son Theodore to which I am actually linking. Shoebat is a self-described peace activist and former Muslim who was a terrorist but who converted to Christianity. So, while he has his prejudices, Shoebat should be a reliable source for this story. I dearly hope it is merely a fabrication but I find that difficult to believe. Shoebat reports that there are actual Nazi-like death-camps in Syria where people are systematically slaughtered except that instead of gas chambers they are processed through slaughterhouses like cattle.

This is separate from the reports of systematic starvation of "Palstinians" in Syria. It's also separate from the report that Syrian snipers are targeting children, not to kill them but to permanently disable them.

In other words, the report by Shoebat is only the latest that things are going on in Syria that the civilized world has said must never be allowed to happen again.
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Ian Radford
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It sounds a little too sensationally horrific to be necessarily believable without corroboration from established sources.

That doesn't mean that there haven't been more than enough documented atrocities and breaches of international law in Syria to merit international intervention, of course.
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Moshe Callen
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I'm not saying to jump the gun but certainly it should be looked into.

EDIT:
There's the report from Amnesty International on the systematic starvation of "Palestinians".
The UN Human Right chief's port that children are being targeted.

So other atrocities are confirmed.
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That's horrifying. I sincerely hope most of that is exaggerated or untrue.
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whac3 wrote:
I'm not saying to jump the gun but certainly it should be looked into.

EDIT:
There's the report from Amnesty International on the systematic starvation of "Palestinians".
The UN Human Right chief's port that children are being targeted.

So other atrocities are confirmed.

Not to mention that British and French intelligence are confident that Assad's government has been nerve-gassing his own people, in contravention of the Geneval Protocols, to which Syria is a signatory.

The greater tragedy is that our nations have the opportunity to - for once - set the good precedent of enforcing international law by force of arms, but have squandered public support for doing so over eleven years of futile and wasteful entanglement in Iraq.
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Neon Joe, Werewolf He-yump
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I gotta say, I'll need to see this reported in something that doesn't have a big "donate now to rescue Christians" button in the top corner and embedded in the story. I wouldn't necessarily put such barbarity past the asshole takfiris, but the story seems designed to play to anti-Islamic prejudices in graphic and extreme ways somewhat reminiscent of the blood libel against Jews

To wit, the comments section is chock full of genocidaires suggesting that the obvious solution is to wipe Islam off the earth

Quote:
There is no way to defeat these vile evil demons! Except by exterminating them! Nuke them kill the slaughter them wherever they are found! Use thier tactics against them! If we dont. They will! Eventually!
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Moshe Callen
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μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
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toku42 wrote:
I gotta say, I'll need to see this reported in something that doesn't have a big "donate now to rescue Christians" button in the top corner and embedded in the story. I wouldn't necessarily put such barbarity past the asshole takfiris, but the story seems designed to play to anti-Islamic prejudices in graphic and extreme ways somewhat reminiscent of the blood libel against Jews

To wit, the comments section is chock full of genocidaires suggesting that the obvious solution is to wipe Islam off the earth

Quote:
There is no way to defeat these vile evil demons! Except by exterminating them! Nuke them kill the slaughter them wherever they are found! Use thier tactics against them! If we dont. They will! Eventually!

I understand. Still it does fit with the broader pattern that is emerging. While I want to dismiss the source as a nutcase, I'm not sure I can. I also think accusations of this sort must be looked into.

Did anyone point out that if true, a number of the victims are Muslims and that takfiris are specifically those Muslims who accuse others of apostasy. They sound to me like the Muslim analog of the Inquisition.
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Assuming (it's a big assumption) that the story is true, it appears to be kidnapping for ransom. Religion is only a veneer to make it "palatable".

This all reads a bit elders of Zion to me.
 
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slatersteven wrote:
Assuming (it's a big assumption) that the story is true, it appears to be kidnapping for ransom. Religion is only a veneer to make it "palatable".

This all reads a bit elders of Zion to me.

With video footage of bodies though.
 
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whac3 wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Assuming (it's a big assumption) that the story is true, it appears to be kidnapping for ransom. Religion is only a veneer to make it "palatable".

This all reads a bit elders of Zion to me.

With video footage of bodies though.
Bodies can be produced by all kinds of means, and in a war like Syria's they are not going to be hard to find.

IN fact (going back to the elders of Zion) some of this could have been (virtually) cut and pasted from it.
 
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There is no Dana, only Zuul
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The allegations "should" be investigated...by whom? Under what authority - to what end?
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xilan wrote:
The allegations "should" be investigated...by whom? Under what authority - to what end?

Anyone who can investigate should. What authority is needed? Quite simply, if genocide is happening, then those powers able to stop it have aa moral obligation to at least try to do so. Systematic mass murder, especially of civilians, is a crime against humanity.
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whac3 wrote:
xilan wrote:
The allegations "should" be investigated...by whom? Under what authority - to what end?

Anyone who can investigate should. What authority is needed? Quite simply, if genocide is happening, then those powers able to stop it have aa moral obligation to at least try to do so. Systematic mass murder, especially of civilians, is a crime against humanity.
Because if Bert from down the pub investigates it will not have the authority to force co-operation, nor be authoritative enough to be acceptable for prosecutions or actions.
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slatersteven wrote:
whac3 wrote:
xilan wrote:
The allegations "should" be investigated...by whom? Under what authority - to what end?

Anyone who can investigate should. What authority is needed? Quite simply, if genocide is happening, then those powers able to stop it have aa moral obligation to at least try to do so. Systematic mass murder, especially of civilians, is a crime against humanity.
Because if Bert from down the pub investigates it will not have the authority to force co-operation, nor be authoritative enough to be acceptable for prosecutions or actions.

Does Bert have the wherewithal to launch that kind of investigation?
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whac3 wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
whac3 wrote:
xilan wrote:
The allegations "should" be investigated...by whom? Under what authority - to what end?

Anyone who can investigate should. What authority is needed? Quite simply, if genocide is happening, then those powers able to stop it have aa moral obligation to at least try to do so. Systematic mass murder, especially of civilians, is a crime against humanity.
Because if Bert from down the pub investigates it will not have the authority to force co-operation, nor be authoritative enough to be acceptable for prosecutions or actions.

Does Bert have the wherewithal to launch that kind of investigation?
What is such "wherewithal"? Is not the "wherewithal" the abilty to force co-operation (for example), and that means "authority".
 
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whac3 wrote:
Did anyone point out that if true, a number of the victims are Muslims and that takfiris are specifically those Muslims who accuse others of apostasy. They sound to me like the Muslim analog of the Inquisition.


Yeah pretty much - "Takfiri" is a word I'd never heard before the Syrian conflict, but I expect to hear a lot more of it in future as this conflict continues to pit radical Sunnis against both Shias and moderate Sunni Muslims.

Another enlightened comment on that article wrote:
There are no moderate Muslims


Yet another heart-warming case of Islamophobes finding common ground with jihadis
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Moshe Callen
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slatersteven wrote:
whac3 wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
whac3 wrote:
xilan wrote:
The allegations "should" be investigated...by whom? Under what authority - to what end?

Anyone who can investigate should. What authority is needed? Quite simply, if genocide is happening, then those powers able to stop it have aa moral obligation to at least try to do so. Systematic mass murder, especially of civilians, is a crime against humanity.
Because if Bert from down the pub investigates it will not have the authority to force co-operation, nor be authoritative enough to be acceptable for prosecutions or actions.

Does Bert have the wherewithal to launch that kind of investigation?
What is such "wherewithal"? Is not the "wherewithal" the abilty to force co-operation (for example), and that means "authority".

Yes, the Associated Press for example has lots of authority. shake
 
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whac3 wrote:
xilan wrote:
The allegations "should" be investigated...by whom? Under what authority - to what end?

Anyone who can investigate should. What authority is needed? Quite simply, if genocide is happening, then those powers able to stop it have aa moral obligation to at least try to do so. Systematic mass murder, especially of civilians, is a crime against humanity.


Authority matters because it's not accepted in the global arena to go into an area where you receive reports of mistreatment and investigate it just because you feel the individual need. There come these lingering questions about imperialism, justification, what happens if your intelligence happened to be incorrect, etc. Recent examples would be Russia with Crimea and the US with Iraq.
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xilan wrote:
whac3 wrote:
xilan wrote:
The allegations "should" be investigated...by whom? Under what authority - to what end?

Anyone who can investigate should. What authority is needed? Quite simply, if genocide is happening, then those powers able to stop it have aa moral obligation to at least try to do so. Systematic mass murder, especially of civilians, is a crime against humanity.


Authority matters because it's not accepted in the global arena to go into an area where you receive reports of mistreatment and investigate it just because you feel the individual need. There come these lingering questions about imperialism, justification, what happens if your intelligence happened to be incorrect, etc. Recent examples would be Russia with Crimea and the US with Iraq.

Yes, because both of those involved multiple reports of large-scale crimes against humanity.
 
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whac3 wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
whac3 wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
whac3 wrote:
xilan wrote:
The allegations "should" be investigated...by whom? Under what authority - to what end?

Anyone who can investigate should. What authority is needed? Quite simply, if genocide is happening, then those powers able to stop it have aa moral obligation to at least try to do so. Systematic mass murder, especially of civilians, is a crime against humanity.
Because if Bert from down the pub investigates it will not have the authority to force co-operation, nor be authoritative enough to be acceptable for prosecutions or actions.

Does Bert have the wherewithal to launch that kind of investigation?
What is such "wherewithal"? Is not the "wherewithal" the abilty to force co-operation (for example), and that means "authority".

Yes, the Associated Press for example has lots of authority. :shake:
Yep, the press they are the arbiters of all truth, and the abilty to go anywhere.
 
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whac3 wrote:
xilan wrote:
whac3 wrote:
xilan wrote:
The allegations "should" be investigated...by whom? Under what authority - to what end?

Anyone who can investigate should. What authority is needed? Quite simply, if genocide is happening, then those powers able to stop it have aa moral obligation to at least try to do so. Systematic mass murder, especially of civilians, is a crime against humanity.


Authority matters because it's not accepted in the global arena to go into an area where you receive reports of mistreatment and investigate it just because you feel the individual need. There come these lingering questions about imperialism, justification, what happens if your intelligence happened to be incorrect, etc. Recent examples would be Russia with Crimea and the US with Iraq.

Yes, because both of those involved multiple reports of large-scale crimes against humanity.


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Hardly but they can report if they want to.
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whac3 wrote:
Hardly but they can report if they want to.
But that cannot ever be sufficient for action, only for more reports. We must never start wars based on "remember the Maine" mentalities.
 
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slatersteven wrote:
whac3 wrote:
Hardly but they can report if they want to.
But that cannot ever be sufficient for action, only for more reports. We must never start wars based on "remember the Maine" mentalities.

Funny how levels of proof are so much different than those for places one country over.
 
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whac3 wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
whac3 wrote:
Hardly but they can report if they want to.
But that cannot ever be sufficient for action, only for more reports. We must never start wars based on "remember the Maine" mentalities.

Funny how levels of proof are so much different than those for places one country over.
What? when have I called for action based upon just media reports?
 
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