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Star Trek: Attack Wing» Forums » Variants

Subject: Double shields rss

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King of the Wood
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So just a thought here...

I have to play this obviously but what would be the effect of playing with all ships having double shield values. My overall feeling is that ships never get to use enough of their upgrades to play out during the game - ships are destroyed relatively quickly. By giving ships more shields maybe the crew upgrades would have more impact to play...just thinking out loud here.

Another thought is to give each side of ship its own shield tokens effectively x4 shields but same value as card per side of ship...
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Ryan Caputo
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Put attack denial abilities on your ships once you get in close and start mixing it up the game can actually go pretty long. Ship die fast because of initial contact, happens in every game, a volley of fire where all the ships get to shoot. I have learned either be prepared to be the shooter or be prepared to be the target.
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Colin Goodman
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Quote:


I have to play this obviously but what would be the effect of playing with all ships having double shield values. My overall feeling is that ships never get to use enough of their upgrades to play out during the game - ships are destroyed relatively quickly. By giving ships more shields maybe the crew upgrades would have more impact to play...just thinking out loud here.


I thinks that a great idea. I wish that was how STAW had been designed but for now it sounds like a great idea for an event scenario.
 
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Justin Hare
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I watched a Sutherland with Picard and Sulu survive more than a dozen attacks against it last night at an OP6. Ships can survive.

I don't inherent take issue with this idea of yours, but what is your plan to buff cloak to balance your change?
 
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Brandon Holmes
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Doubling would benefit high shield ships more than low. I think if I were to try this I'd add 2 shields per ship and increase the cost of each ship by 4 points (otherwise low cost ships become too attractive). Abilities that improve shields(including ships themselves) would need to be cost-adjusted as well.

I like the idea here (I too would like the battles to feel like more of a slug-fest than a dog fight) but remember that any changes you make affect the balance in some way.
 
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King of the Wood
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Thanks all for thought sharing. Why would cloak need to be buffed?
 
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Trueflight Silverwing
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If you are going to double the shield values on ships, are you going to adjust the points for the new values to balance it out? Otherwise ships with 5 or 6 shields would be gaining a huge advantage over the ones that normally only get 2 or 3 (basically a Valdore would be gaining a whole 2 shields or 4 points where something like the JH Battleship would be gaining 5 shields or 10 points).

In the very least, doubling shield values would hurt cloaking ships the most (unless that was part of your intent). as a cloaking ship with its shields down would gain no advantage when compared to a non cloaked ship that now has twice the shields it previously had.
 
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King of the Wood
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You see one worry I have is that swarm tactics win out. better to have two ships with vanilla captains than one ship fully kitted out? With higher shield values the kitted out ship would have 'time' to make its crew and upgrades do something what they are intended to do...
 
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Erin OConnor
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Keep seeing threads like these cropping up.

Seriously the game plays just fine as is.

There are really good 2 and 3 ship builds for every faction not to mention cross faction builds.




Admittedly having directional shields would be a really cool rules variant. (fore, aft, port and starboard shields all have their own values and deplete independently)
 
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Brook Gentlestream
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Echo2Omega wrote:
Keep seeing threads like these cropping up.

Seriously the game plays just fine as is.


What's the point of posting something like this in a variants forum?
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Daniel Hensel
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Troll66 wrote:
Thanks all for thought sharing. Why would cloak need to be buffed?

When you cloak, you're essentially trading in your shields for more defense dice. It's going to take more attack strength to break through those extra shields, but cloaked ships still face the same possibility of one-shot annihilation as before. If you double the shield strength without buffing cloak in any way, you are decidedly giving the advantage to non-cloaking ships.
Troll66 wrote:
You see one worry I have is that swarm tactics win out. better to have two ships with vanilla captains than one ship fully kitted out? With higher shield values the kitted out ship would have 'time' to make its crew and upgrades do something what they are intended to do...

Have you seen swarm tactics dominate your local meta? If so, then this is a valid concern. However, this doesn't seem to be the case at all from what I've seen. Nearly every 100-point fleet I've seen consists of 2-3 ships with the occasional 4-5 ship swarm fleet, and those are usually not very effective.
ryolacap wrote:
Put attack denial abilities on your ships once you get in close and start mixing it up the game can actually go pretty long. Ship die fast because of initial contact, happens in every game, a volley of fire where all the ships get to shoot. I have learned either be prepared to be the shooter or be prepared to be the target.

This sums up the right way to keep your ships from dying too quickly. Focus on either making the alpha strike or surviving it. If you don't do either, you've lost before the match even begins.
 
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Erin OConnor
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lordrahvin wrote:
Echo2Omega wrote:
Keep seeing threads like these cropping up.

Seriously the game plays just fine as is.


What's the point of posting something like this in a variants forum?


Oh crap. You are right.

That is my bad!
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Read the rulebook, plan for all contingencies, and…read the rulebook again.
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To the OP:

Looong discussion about this topic here.

There are lots of ways you could do it, if you're set on it. You could double and split them Port/Starboard or Fore/Aft.

Or you could double them and split them up four ways to each side.

Or you could double them and put half split four ways on each side and the remaining half goes into the Navigational Deflector (there was such a concept before the STAW card appeared), which can be angled to any facing you want want for an action. (Otherwise, considered to be to the front.)

But, yeah, the best thing is try something out with your friends and report back on the fun.

...But I do agree with some others that if you jack around with the way shields function, that may have some adverse impact on how Cloaked ships play out.
 
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Allen Gould
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Mr_Tricorder wrote:
Troll66 wrote:
Thanks all for thought sharing. Why would cloak need to be buffed?

When you cloak, you're essentially trading in your shields for more defense dice. It's going to take more attack strength to break through those extra shields, but cloaked ships still face the same possibility of one-shot annihilation as before. If you double the shield strength without buffing cloak in any way, you are decidedly giving the advantage to non-cloaking ships.


One solution - double the *hull*, not the shields. Gets you roughly the same place, but cloakers are included in the fun.

(Also, gives more chances for crits to do things. Can't count the number of times a crit never mattered because oh, I vaporized you.)
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Andrew Frazier
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anyGould wrote:
Mr_Tricorder wrote:
Troll66 wrote:
Thanks all for thought sharing. Why would cloak need to be buffed?

When you cloak, you're essentially trading in your shields for more defense dice. It's going to take more attack strength to break through those extra shields, but cloaked ships still face the same possibility of one-shot annihilation as before. If you double the shield strength without buffing cloak in any way, you are decidedly giving the advantage to non-cloaking ships.


One solution - double the *hull*, not the shields. Gets you roughly the same place, but cloakers are included in the fun.

(Also, gives more chances for crits to do things. Can't count the number of times a crit never mattered because oh, I vaporized you.)


I like this solution the best. Even though it is from the much debated Voyager show, in the "Year from Hell" episodes, Voyager takes significant damage and keeps on fighting. There were probably several critical systems failures that occurred in that time as well. If directly doubling hull points irks people, then maybe make the hull point boost scaleable based on Captain Skill. 1-3: +1 hull, 4-5: +2 hull, 6-7: +3 hull, 8-9: +4 hull.
Then, thematically, one could say the better captains avert/spread damage so as not to disable/destroy their ships.
 
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Allen Gould
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GuruForge wrote:
If directly doubling hull points irks people, then maybe make the hull point boost scaleable based on Captain Skill. 1-3: +1 hull, 4-5: +2 hull, 6-7: +3 hull, 8-9: +4 hull.
Then, thematically, one could say the better captains avert/spread damage so as not to disable/destroy their ships.


Personally, I think high-skill captains are already under-costed, so they don't need extra points of goodies. (Remember, +4 Hull is 8 points)

I suspect double might just be spooking folks who are looking at 12 Hull ships. So as an alternative, give them +1 hull for each 10 points of ship value. (e.g. 10-19 pt ships get +1 hull, 20-29 pts get +2). The heavies get a bigger bonus without it being crazy-crazy.
 
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