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Subject: Is honesty the best policy? rss

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jeffrey wee
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First of all I would like to state that my gaming group love resistance and avalon and we take it out enough to know that we can be very good in lying in order to win. With that said, my first attempt at bringing coup to them was a disaster. The two players who tried to lie were caught and removed out of the game. All of the remaining players decided that honest was the best policy and as far as I know nobody bothered lying anymore.

"Oh you assassinating me? Well I do not have the appropriate card thus I dun lie and I will just lose an influence"

After one game no one was interested anymore. I looked up in the forum and saw no one bringing up this topic so I was really interested, is policy really the best policy? We lie very often when needed to in games like resistance so it wasn't because we can't lie or we dun like to lie to win games. I persuaded them for a second round and I wanted to ask around if there are any views with regards to what I posted.
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Stephen Eckman
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dakonation wrote:
First of all I would like to state that my gaming group love resistance and avalon and we take it out enough to know that we can be very good in lying in order to win. With that said, my first attempt at bringing coup to them was a disaster. The two players who tried to lie were caught and removed out of the game. All of the remaining players decided that honest was the best policy and as far as I know nobody bothered lying anymore.

"Oh you assassinating me? Well I do not have the appropriate card thus I dun lie and I will just lose an influence"

After one game no one was interested anymore. I looked up in the forum and saw no one bringing up this topic so I was really interested, is policy really the best policy? We lie very often when needed to in games like resistance so it wasn't because we can't lie or we dun like to lie to win games. I persuaded them for a second round and I wanted to ask around if there are any views with regards to what I posted.

In my experience (always with 6 players) the most honest person has always won. That really takes the fun out of the game for me. I'm hoping it is a better game with less players. Maybe 4 is the sweet spot?
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Clyde W
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I think the answer to your question is, "Sometimes."

You guys should play it at least 3 times before judging.
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Lloyd
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dakonation wrote:

"Oh you assassinating me? Well I do not have the appropriate card thus I dun lie and I will just lose an influence"


If a player is always telling the truth, well, they're easy to target. If you always tell the truth and (for example) call Duke and Contessa, well, I'll use a Captain to take 2 money from you each turn and coup you.

Telling the truth is useful, but lying at the right time is key.
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Ken Dilloo
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Everything is relative to perception, and your perception is limited.
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Like in poker, where the good stuff really lies is convincing people that you are either always lying or always telling the truth. The greatest trick the devil pulled off was convincing the world he didn't exist.

In my experience, if you can successfully bluff a role, in the early game (like Duke), you will win a good deal of the time. If not, then play again. It's like a 10 minute game
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Rhys Hopkins
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In my experience you can win with lying and with honesty; it is certainly dangerous to call people out in certain circumstances.

In one run of games we played I decided to go after a particular player who seemed to always have the 'right' card at the right time. The majority of the time I lost, but he said himself he was extremely lucky in those games.

One strategy that I have seen emerge after numerous plays is lying even when you have got the right card. For instance letting someone steal off you even though you have the Captain, essentially goading someone into trying to steal off you again, when they try to you say you suddenly have the right card and they think you're lying, taking them out that way.

There are a lot of subtle strategies you can use in Coup, but they aren't really apparent when you first start playing.
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Honesty is the best policy if you have a winning hand.
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Zack Stackurski
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I try to lie early and be honest late. Early on few people are likely to bother calling out roles and if you can end up claiming three or more roles its sows a lot of confusion. Late in the game people are looking to eliminate people with good bluff calling so if you can lure people into calling you out when you are telling the truth its the best.

Honestly, I often see the person who draws the right cards at the end take away the win... but to get there they usually need to throw a good bluff or two along the way.
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jeffrey wee
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Hi all, thanks a lot for the various feedback. We played a second game and it dragged to the point where we couldn't even finish the game. Since I've heard all around boardgamegeek that coup has replaced resistance and avalon, we tried for a third game. The results was the same. The person holding double Contessa or double Ambassador ALWAYS will not get eliminated due to the block ability and that the other powers are rarely lied. We couldn't finish the third game.

By then I was looking through the forums even harder. It is impossible that a Singaporean group managed to break the game that so many people enjoyed. Then it hit me, I had mistaken Coup as assassination which allowed the Contessa and the Ambassador to block the Coup action rendering collecting coins as an useless strategy.

I convinced them for a final trial, confident that it will succeed this time. We ended up playing for seven games straight in a row. Many bluffs were attempted and the honest person did not win a single round. People who hold on to their Contessa or Ambassador will without a doubt get couped and there were nothing they can do. The new ruling encouraged bluffings and the one who managed to bluff the best almost always wins. This game, as it has done for many people, replaced resistance as the top bluffing game for us as well.

"Hey you now have 7 coins? I'm gonna Captain you so that you cannot coup me as I know you are targeting me since I'm the only player left with 2 influences." "I won? Aha! I did not have captain in the first place!!" These moments provided us with uproars and laughter. More outrageous lies than resistance and avalon were conceived and it eliminated the downtime where the resistance players spending 10 minutes arguing who to send for the missions. A perfect quick 10 minutes bluffing game for us, Coup, we will never go back to resistance ever

If I have anything negative to say about coup, it would be that though lying is always good, what you have in your hand is also important so luck is still quite heavy and more importantly, my both sets of resistance and avalon are now rendered useless

P.S. I'm sorry for my terribly written English, I've written this down trembling with the excitement of future game plays of Coup with my wonderful gaming group of bloody liars!
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Clyde W
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Coup does NOT replace Avalon. They are so different. But both quite good!

Now that you've figured out Coup, you need to run and find yourself copies of One Night Ultimate Werewolf and Mascarade!
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jeffrey wee
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clydeiii wrote:
Coup does NOT replace Avalon. They are so different. But both quite good!


Clyde, we love avalon and resistance. But we like to talk so much, a game can take 45 minutes mostly due to discussions and accusations. We still love it, but for now Coup replaced the '10 minutes of lying and accusing' itch for us.
 
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Des Lee
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Haha, glad you guys came around - playing by the correct rules is usually a good thing

To my mind, there's 2 reasons to tell the truth - either you want to avoid being challenged, or you want to establish a pattern of behaviour that you can exploit later. The trick is knowing WHEN to bluff, and it's rarely "all the time".

Don't give up on The Resistance though. With 7-8 players and 30 minutes, it hits its sweet spot whereas Coup is great with 5-6 players and 15 minutes.

If you like the whole hidden roles thing, maybe look at One Night Ultimate Werewolf as well. We've been playing a ton of it lately, a superb game IMO best with 5-6 players.
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Robert Forrest
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dakonation wrote:
The person holding double Contessa or double Ambassador ALWAYS will not get eliminated due to the block ability and that the other powers are rarely lied. We couldn't finish the third game.


It should be pretty rare that a player has an identical pair of cards, and rarer still that they hold on to them for the whole game. You're replacing the cards after they've been revealed, right?
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Des Lee
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Also, remember that a Contessa blocks an assasination, an Ambassador does NOT. They can block a captain (and a captain can also block another captain)
 
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Ken Dilloo
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Double Contessa does kinda suck, you just need to lie your ass off, or hope people are assassinating.
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jeffrey wee
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Quote:
It should be pretty rare that a player has an identical pair of cards, and rarer still that they hold on to them for the whole game. You're replacing the cards after they've been revealed, right?


We played wrongly in that Ambassador can block assassination instead of Captain and that Coup is an assassination as well. Therefore someone holding double Ambassador in a 6 player game can rotate his Ambassador and Contessa throughout the entire game and no one bothered to do anything at all since he can block coup and assassination. That we played wrongly, we changed the rules to the correct ones and had a 7 game streak.

Quote:
The trick is knowing WHEN to bluff, and it's rarely "all the time".


Yup I may be too excited last night when I typed out our newfound experience, but we do not lie all the time. But it's safe to say we have been lying enough to be never be able to tell if someone is telling the truth or not when he/she starts taking 3 coins off the center of the table

Quote:
If you like the whole hidden roles thing, maybe look at One Night Ultimate Werewolf as well.


We are not expanding into One Night Ultimate Werewolf despite how much we have been playing Ultimate Werewolf. Something about the game ending in 1 turn just put me off personally, my friends are not into board game enough to surf boardgamegeek regularly or to find out the new releases so they do not know even the existence of One Night Ultimate Werewolf.
 
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Robert Forrest
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dakonation wrote:
Yup I may be too excited last night when I typed out our newfound experience, but we do not lie all the time. But it's safe to say we have been lying enough to be never be able to tell if someone is telling the truth or not when he/she starts taking 3 coins off the center of the table


Excellent! Sounds like you guys have cracked the game open now!
 
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Clyde W
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dakonation wrote:

We are not expanding into One Night Ultimate Werewolf despite how much we have been playing Ultimate Werewolf. Something about the game ending in 1 turn just put me off personally, my friends are not into board game enough to surf boardgamegeek regularly or to find out the new releases so they do not know even the existence of One Night Ultimate Werewolf.
You REALLY need to give it a shot. I'm pretty sure Ted, the guy who publishes both, is now far more obsessed with One Night than he is with Regular Werewolf. The game is an absolute blast, and even after playing it hundreds of times, I still see new scenarios happen on occasion.
 
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Byron Leung
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fredcvbgt wrote:
Honesty is the best policy if you have a winning hand.
Quote for Truth. And also kudos to other replies that compares this game to poker. If you keep getting called out, then draw the right cards, who cares if you never lie.

But try starting the game with two Contessa or Contessa + Duke. Good luck not lying.

In the same note though, the game is less fun for me not becoz' it doesn't require lying. But the fact that more often than not your cards determine whether you have to lie, exactly like poker, and exactly the reason I don't like poker.
 
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