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Subject: Need Help With Fixing NBN rss

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Jonny Y
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Below is my NBN deck that I built. I have played it a few times and it seems to work ok as a concept but I am at the point where I feel it needs to be cleaned up. However, I am lost as to what to cut, what to change out and where to go from here. Any help would be great.

Some of my concerns

-Too many cards, I would love to drop this deck down to 49, but I am lost on which cards should go

-I have a feeling I could drop some of my ICE

-There might not be enough credit generating in the deck (in general I am having issues figuring out what is enough in a corp deck)

-Not enough damage to make the scorched earth theme work. Should I just drop it all together.

54 cards *edited for proper size*

15/15 influence used

22 agenda points

NBN: Making News (Core Set)

Agenda (10)

3x AstroScript Pilot Program (Core Set)
1x Priority Requisition (Core Set)
1x Private Security Force (Core Set)
1x Restructured Datapool (What Lies Ahead)
3x Project Beale (Future Proof)
1x Market Research (Fear and Loathing)

Operation (17)

1x Closed Accounts (Core Set)
2x Psychographics (Core Set)
2x SEA Source (Core Set)
2x Scorched Earth (Core Set) •••• ••••
2x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
1x Midseason Replacements (Future Proof)
1x Invasion of Privacy (Opening Moves)
1x Shipment from SanSan (Second Thoughts)
3x Sweeps Week (True Colors)
1x Punitive Counterstrike (True Colors) ••
1x Subliminal Messaging (Fear and Loathing)

ICE (18)

2x Data Raven (Core Set)
2x Matrix Analyzer (Core Set)
2x Tollbooth (Core Set)
2x Enigma (Core Set)
1x Wall of Static (Core Set)
1x TMI (What Lies Ahead)
2x Pop-up Window (Cyber Exodus)
1x Eli 1.0 (Future Proof) •
1x Flare (Future Proof)
1x Bastion (Creation and Control)
1x Datapike (Creation and Control)
1x RSVP (True Colors)
1x Wraparound (Fear and Loathing)

Upgrade (3)

2x Red Herrings (Core Set)
1x Bernice Mai (Humanity's Shadow)

Asset (6)

1x PAD Campaign (Core Set)
1x Edge of World (Cyber Exodus) ••
1x Private Contracts (Cyber Exodus)
1x Cerebral Overwriter (Creation and Control) ••
2x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves)
 
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Andrew Keddie
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Well, first of all you need to either cut two cards or add two Agenda Points - your deck isn't legal.

What are you looking to DO with the deck? It's quite scattered, with a lot of one-off cards. What's the deck strategy?
 
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Jonny Y
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Sorry, I wrote in wrong, the deck is actual 54 cards, I wrote 56 for some reason, I edited original post.

The deck was meant to tag runners and use those tags to either kill the runner or at least slow them down so I can complete my agendas quickly.
 
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Lluluien
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Couple of things I see right off the bat:

1) General Corp advice, and not necessarily just NBN: try to arrange your decks so that all of your agendas masquerade for each other, and then include some non-agenda cards with the same advancement classification to help you take advantage of the information disparity between you and the Runner. You can read my Never Advance NBN thread for more info on this - that's one of the main premises of the deck (and the one it's named for). You have an agenda make-up that's all over the map: a few 5/3's, some 3/2's, some 4/2's, and I'm not sure their abilities seem to follow some universal strategy for your deck.

NBN is probably always going to be running Astroscript and Beale for the foreseeable future even in a deck that intends to use the advanced masquerade class of cards (as opposed to the never-advanced ones) since Astroscript is so good and Beale is the only agenda in the game that fits *both*, but you could probably do yourself some good if you decide on this by including a couple copies of Ghost Branch, Thomas Haas, or GRNDL Refinery if you go this route.

The best example of conflicting strategy in your deck regarding this point is the fact that you included both Edge of World and Cerebral Overwriter in the same deck.


2) Make sure you're aware of the timing considerations for some of the operation cards, since you're including so many 1-ofs. Midseason Replacements is a good example; you probably only want one copy of this during the game, but because it has such amazingly restrictive timing considerations (possibly the most in the game for one single card), then you'll want said copy of it early so you have it available when the stars align to play it.
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Adam Perry
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what i would advise you do, is go look at all the tournament winning nbn decks, look at the cards they share in common, the cards that are different, maybe play one or two of them, and see whether you like them. from there, you can say things "i really want to try cerebral overwriter in NBN to see if it works"

the problem with this deck is that it trying to be 3 different decks
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Jonny Y
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Quote:
1) General Corp advice, and not necessarily just NBN: try to arrange your decks so that all of your agendas masquerade for each other, and then include some non-agenda cards with the same advancement classification to help you take advantage of the information disparity between you and the Runner. You can read my Never Advance NBN thread for more info on this - that's one of the main premises of the deck (and the one it's named for). You have an agenda make-up that's all over the map: a few 5/3's, some 3/2's, some 4/2's, and I'm not sure their abilities seem to follow some universal strategy for your deck.

NBN is probably always going to be running Astroscript and Beale for the foreseeable future even in a deck that intends to use the advanced masquerade class of cards (as opposed to the never-advanced ones) since Astroscript is so good and Beale is the only agenda in the game that fits *both*.


Thanks for the great explanation, I read through your thread and it makes a lot of sense. In my case the structured datapool and priority requisition were added to fit the required agenda points. However, if I were to drop 1 card I could replace those two with 1 Project Beale and 2 Private Security Force (assuming I keep the deck size the same). Would that help in keep the make up of the agendas closer together?

Quote:
but you could probably do yourself some good if you decide on this by including a couple copies of Ghost Branch, Thomas Haas, or GRNDL Refinery if you go this route


The reason for this is to provide some things to hide your agendas among as well as provide credits am I correct? I noticed my deck tends to generate most of its credits off operations, so should I look to swap some of those to asset generated credits.

Quote:
The best example of conflicting strategy in your deck regarding this point is the fact that you included both Edge of World and Cerebral Overwriter in the same deck.


I had Edge of World because it seemed like it was cheaper to pull off due to not needing to advance. But I do see how the Cerebral Overwriter does help with the whole hiding theme.

Quote:

2) Make sure you're aware of the timing considerations for some of the operation cards, since you're including so many 1-ofs. Midseason Replacements is a good example; you probably only want one copy of this during the game, but because it has such amazingly restrictive timing considerations (possibly the most in the game for one single card), then you'll want said copy of it early so you have it available when the stars align to play it.


I had a huge problem deciding between how to divide up card slots between.

2x Psychographics (Core Set)
2x SEA Source (Core Set)
1x Midseason Replacements (Future Proof)
1x Shipment from SanSan (Second Thoughts)

Priority of operations is something I will have to consider and reconsider.


Quote:
the problem with this deck is that it trying to be 3 different decks


I guess I was hoping the deck would provide a decent chance to score agendas pretty quickly as well as provide a good chance to kill a runner. Are those goals too far apart for it to even consider? I don't think a straight kill NBN deck is not that strong so I would rather go with the scoring agenda route instead. However, in that case do I drop all the damage cards (Scorched Earth, punitive counterstrike, invasion of privacy) or just tone it down and keep some of them as a way to slow the runner down.

 
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Lyrael Tyranous
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The first big trick to deckbuilding is to pick one idea, or something that can be summed up in one sentence or less. For example, the NBN decklist I run is "fun Fast Advance". To me, that means that at its core, its an NBN Fast Advance deck, but with enough tricks to where its not boring.

The second big thing is consistency (where the first idea comes in). If you're building your deck around one idea, it needs to be able to do that one thing well. That's why you want to include a 3 copies if you want it early, or 2 copies if you want it mid to late game. The only reason you should ever have a one-off if it relates to your main combo is for influence reasons.

Then you need money to pull it off. That's where Sweeps Week and Hedge Fund come in, and I would recommend at least a few other sources of being able to get money.

There's your ICE profile. Generally speaking, the fewer ICE in a deck, the more each has to be solid on their own. Data Raven, right now, is a combo ICE that isn't relevant on its own, as its either 'end the run' (pretty much) or 'All the tags, I want them'.

And you want multiple copies of your solid ICE, following the rules for consistency.

You want to pick out agendas/assets/upgrades that support this idea. For Fast Advance, that would be SanSan City Grid, and Jackson Howard (at a minimum). I also include Private Contracts (which works like Adonis for NBN, although more click intensive), Ash (going back to the taxing idea, especially great behind a Tollbooth). For Agendas, Astroscript and Project Beale are the standards for good reason.

Ideally, you pick out a secondary idea that supports the first idea. For Fast Advance, that's usually 'by trashing their rig/programs, I can get a scoring window'. So, I include 2x Ichi 1.0, 1x Archer, 1x Flare.

Then, and only then, if you have any space left, see if there's a different idea (not necessarily related to your first idea). For my NBN Fast Advance deck, that's combos. I include Midseasons, Psychographics, Character Assassination, and Private Security Force because they're just fun cards, and because it allows me to do unexpected things.

The end of this process, for me, resulted in this decklist:

NBN Special Report v2.0

NBN: Making News (Core Set)

Agenda (11)
3x AstroScript Pilot Program (Core Set)
2x Breaking News (Core Set)
2x Character Assassination (Opening Moves)
2x Private Security Force (Core Set)
2x Project Beale (Future Proof)

Asset (6)
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves)
3x Private Contracts (Cyber Exodus)

Upgrade (5)
2x Ash 2X3ZB9CY (What Lies Ahead) ••••
3x SanSan City Grid (Core Set)

Operation (12)
2x Closed Accounts (Core Set)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
2x Midseason Replacements (Future Proof)
2x Psychographics (Core Set)
3x Sweeps Week (True Colors)

Barrier (4)
1x Bastion (Creation and Control)
3x Wraparound (Fear and Loathing)

Code Gate (4)
2x Enigma (Core Set)
2x Tollbooth (Core Set)

Sentry (7)
1x Archer (Core Set) ••
2x Caduceus (What Lies Ahead) ••••
1x Flare (Future Proof)
2x Ichi 1.0 (Core Set) ••••
1x Shadow (Core Set)

15 influence spent (max 15)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Fear and Loathing

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.

Finally, I could have put more cards in, but its better to be able to pull off a few tricks well (and consistently), then having a deck full of combos and interesting things that you will rarely be able to do (since most deck ideas rely on more than a single card). That's why most corp decks are a 49 card standard (and why, until you're a more experienced deckbuilder, you should build 49 card corp decks, and 45 card runner decks, or 40 if you're playing Chaos Theory).



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Adam Perry
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you might keep 1x scorched, because people who don't think your NBN is gonna flatline might try to keep their hand low to keep your sweeps weeks really cheap

basically, you are trying to include too many cards to whatever your "plan B" is supposed to be. NBN FA is incredibly powerful with APP and sansan, so you can always fall back on them while your NBN deck is trying to do something else (although a lot of people are perfectly content to force out that first APP and then train it to the end)

Ask yourself, what cards do you WANT to play? is there a particular ice that you want to rez, or an operation/asset you want to rez? from there, you can start building a deck to supplant those cards, and just throw in 3x APP, 3x Beale and 2x SanSan and you'll always have a solid plan B
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Jonny Y
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Thanks for the help and suggestions everyone. How about this as a revision to start. I removed some of the damage cards and focused more on the advancing. There is still some damage in the deck.

49 Cards
15 Influence
20 Agenda
NBN: Making News (Core Set)

Agenda (10)

3x AstroScript Pilot Program (Core Set)
1x Breaking News (Core Set)
1x Private Security Force (Core Set)
1x Restructured Datapool (What Lies Ahead)
3x Project Beale (Future Proof)
1x Market Research (Fear and Loathing)

Operation (14)

1x Psychographics (Core Set)
2x SEA Source (Core Set)
2x Scorched Earth (Core Set) •••• ••••
2x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
2x Midseason Replacements (Future Proof)
1x Punitive Counterstrike (True Colors) ••
1x Shipment from SanSan (Second Thoughts)
3x Sweeps Week (True Colors)

ICE (14)

2x Data Raven (Core Set)
2x Tollbooth (Core Set)
1x Enigma (Core Set)
1x TMI (What Lies Ahead)
1x Draco (What Lies Ahead)
2x Pop-up Window (Cyber Exodus)
1x Datapike (Creation and Control)
1x Bastion (Creation and Control)
1x Snoop (Mala Tempora)
1x RSVP (True Colors)
1x Wraparound (Fear and Loathing)

Upgrade (3)

1x Red Herrings (Core Set)
1x SanSan City Grid (Core Set)
1x Bernice Mai (Humanity's Shadow)

Asset (8)

1x PAD Campaign (Core Set)
2x Edge of World (Cyber Exodus) •• ••
2x Private Contracts (Cyber Exodus)
1x Thomas Haas (Creation and Control) •
2x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves)
 
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Lyrael Tyranous
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You still have too many one offs. Like WAY too many. Pick the couple cards you really like, then put 3 in, and build a deck around those.

Having as many one offs in your deck as you have here means that you will not reliably be able to find anything, which is very, very bad.
 
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Lluluien
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FallenMajesty wrote:
Having as many one offs in your deck as you have here means that you will not reliably be able to find anything, which is very, very bad.


I think this is debatable, provided that you're trying to take advantage of something unexpected in your deck by including it as a one-of. ICE is one place where I think it can actually help to have a few one-ofs to try to angle for a surprise, particularly with stuff like Archer, Flare, Tollbooth, Janus, etc.

This could potentially be true with upgrades too; if the Runner has seen you use a bunch of SanSans and Bernices, you might be able to sucker him into an enormous waste of time with a one-of Red Herrings.

Similarly, if you show the Runner a few Ghost Branches and GRNDL Refineries in a deck that wants to score 5/3 agendas, you'll probably be able to land a 1-of Cerebral Overwriter pretty easily.

You have to make sure though that any of the 1-of cards you're using aren't critical to your game plan for every game (unless you can search for them somehow), because you're not going to see them every game. If you want to try to flatline the Runner after their hand size is weakened by a Cerebral Overwriter, you may have to run more than one Overwriter.

As another example, having Scorched Earth x 1 as a background threat to punish people that are trying to block your Sweeps Week as someone suggested I think is a pretty reasonable justification for including just one, but if you want to pursue flatlining as an actual win condition, you'll probably need more cards than just Scorched Earth x 1.


As an alternative look at the other side of this, PAD Campaign x 1 probably isn't a good include. A lot of the benefit from this type of asset comes from using them to try to exhaust the Runner's ability to maintain his economy for rigging and running while he trashes them all. If he continues to trash them, you gain a tempo advantage, and if he doesn't, you gain an economy advantage. Including just one of these though means you'll either have to defend it (in which case you'd probably rather add another Private Contracts and use it up while you don't need your agenda server), or you let the Runner off the hook pretty easily with regards to the tempo loss for trashing just one copy.
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John Meindersee II
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I agree with the others. You have too many one-offs.

Try this as an exercise:

1. Take out all the one-of cards in the deck
2. Add one copy of each two-of card you have in the deck (making them a three-of)
3. Post this decklist and see what you are left with.

It will need changes and tweaks (you'll need to add some of the missing one-ofs that are gone now), but this exercise will help you be focused.
 
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Ian Hall

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I am going to echo the ideas of my forbearers and say that there are too many one ofs. Cards like Wraparound, pop up window, enigma, etc are things you build your set of ICE around. You need to have consistancy there, otherwise you are always playing blind and trying to make a consistant strategy work from inconsistant defences.

I am a big fan of 1 or 2 one ofs, 1 or 2 two ofs, and a backbone of solid cheap ICE to rely upon.

Here is a breakdown of my ICE in an NBN:MN FA deck (not that it's my suggestion for you to use, but an illustration of my point.)

3 Caduceus
1 Rototurret
1 Archer
1 Draco

3 Viper
3 Pop-up Window
2 RSVP

3 Wraparound

So the deck has enough to suite check the runner, stop Atman w/o Inti. The deck I play is designed to run broke, as a lot of the money is spent on advancing agendas, hence all the cheap ice.

Your deck is trying to be rich, so more econ and bigger ICE is an option.
 
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