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Subject: 11.4 LOS & Missile Fire rss

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Juan Valle
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Hi Everyone,

Yesterday in another thread I posted a similar question, smartly answered by Ralph.

But since weekend is approaching and I want to give a try to this superb game, here is in conclusion what I understand about last two paragraphs on 11.4 LOS, so please let me know whether am right or not:

1-Handgunners and Artillery cannot fire through Hedgerow/Brush hexes unless they and their target are in adjacent hexes, in which case there would be -1 DRM in the missile fire table.

2-Longbow and Archer units can fire through hedgerow/brush hexes against non missile units if both firer(s) and target(s) are in adjacent hexes, the -1 DRM modifier being applied.

3-Longbow and Archers can fire against a non missile unit if the target is in a hedgerow/brush hex not adjacent to the LB/A unit(s), -1 DRM being applied.

4-Longbow and Archers cannot fire against non missile units if the latter are adjacent to a hedgerow/brush hex; if the non missile target unit is 2 or more hexes away then it can be fired at, with a -1 DRM per hedgerow/brush hex between them and the LB/A unit.

5-In the above points 2 through 5, if LB/A are firing against missile units (be it HG/ART or another LB/A) then fire is possible in all the cases, with the -1 DRM modifier applied. So if a LB/A fires against another LB/A adjacent to a hedgerow/bush hex, fire is possible but with the -1 DRM already mentioned.

I do not pretend to confuse anyone, moreover what I have concluded here is according to the phrasing of the rules.

Again, thanks for your wisdom and help.

Regards,

Jumval
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beresford dickens
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1. Yes.

2. Yes.

3. This is true as long as the LOS to the H/B hex is otherwise clear.

4. The LOS has to go through the H/B hex to the adjacent non missile unit in order to be blocked.

5. Yes
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Juan Valle
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beresford wrote:
1. Yes.

2. Yes.

3. This is true as long as the LOS to the H/B hex is otherwise clear.

4. The LOS has to go through the H/B hex to the adjacent non missile unit in order to be blocked.

5. Yes



Thank you very much, Beresford.

Regards,

Jumval
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George Triantafyllidis
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I am sorry but i feel a bit lost here:
Quote:
1-Handgunners and Artillery cannot fire through Hedgerow/Brush hexes unless they and their target are in adjacent hexes, in which case there would be -1 DRM in the missile fire table.

a)in the rulebook it doesn't mention Artillery,only Handguns b)it says that(for handguns) hedgerow/brushes and hedgerow hexsides block LOS only if they are not part of the firing/target unit's hex.They not need to be in adjacent hexes.Provided there are no other interfering hedgerows or hedgerow/brushes in between, they can fire alright(-1DRM)

Quote:
3-Longbow and Archers can fire against a non missile unit if the target is in a hedgerow/brush hex not adjacent to the LB/A unit(s), -1 DRM being applied.

4-Longbow and Archers cannot fire against non missile units if the latter are adjacent to a hedgerow/brush hex; if the non missile target unit is 2 or more hexes away then it can be fired at, with a -1 DRM per hedgerow/brush hex between them and the LB/A unit.


A bit confused with this
I thought that LB/A cannot fire effectively against non missile targets into hedgerow/brush hexes or into hexes with hedgerows because of the cover/concealment note,even if they have LOS

I think i understand the spirit of the rules regarding the LOS effects but there is some confusion which derives from the fact that hedgerow/brushes(which are hexes) and hedgerows(which are hexsides) are mentioned together in the rules and treated like they are the same.That can perplex things because what is adjacent to a hex(hedgerow/brush) is another hex,and what is adjacent to a hexside(hedgerow) is its hex.So to cut it short does...(i quote from rule 11.4)
Quote:
[q]If a LOS is traced through a Hedgerow/Brush hex or Hedgerow
hexside to a non-missile unit adjacent to the Hedgerow/Brush
hex or Hedgerow hexside, it and any leader stacked with it in
are unaffected by incoming missile fire, unless the target and the
firer are in adjacent hexes[/
q]
really means...
Quote:
If a LOS is traced into a Hedgerow/Brush hex or into a hex through its Hedgerow hexside and the target unit is a non-missile unit,then it and any leader stacked with it in
are unaffected by incoming missile fire, unless the target and the
firer are in adjacent hexes
[/

Any thoughts?
Looking forward for my first play(solitaire).I want to see if those LB are as deadly as i read in the reviews
 
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Ralph Shelton
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You are correct about the Artillery being able to fire over these hexes/hexsides.

Through means that it goes in one side and out the other, so it only applies to a non-missile unit on the other side of a Hedgerow/Bruch hex or Hedgerow hexside.

Longbows have lost a lot of power from the original Men of Iron game and are no longer the deciding factor in most battles. In Tewkesbury, there is a relative low shock infantry to longbow ration, so they will have more effect there. In the larger games with more shock infantry they do not play as large a role.
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George Triantafyllidis
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Thanks for stepping in Ralph.I don't have the other games.B&R is my first one in the series.So i am a relative newbie.The WoR is one of my favorite historical periods so i decided to have a go.The rules which i read a couple of times are straightforward and easy to understand.The only issue i have so far is this with the hedgerows.Can you confirm that my understanding as stated below is correct?

Quote:
If a LOS is traced into a Hedgerow/Brush hex or into a hex through its Hedgerow hexside and the target unit in that hex is a non-missile unit,then it and any leader stacked with it
are unaffected by incoming missile fire, unless the target and the
firer are in adjacent hexes
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Ralph Shelton
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Fabvier wrote:

Quote:
If a LOS is traced into a Hedgerow/Brush hex or into a hex through its Hedgerow hexside and the target unit in that hex is a non-missile unit,then it and any leader stacked with it
are unaffected by incoming missile fire, unless the target and the
firer are in adjacent hexes

1) If a LOS traces into and then out of a Hedgerow/Brush hex into the target hex beyond the Hedgerow/Brush hex, then a non-missile unit and any leader stacked with it are unaffected by incoming missile fire. This means it only applies if the target and firer are not adjacent, since there must be a whole hex between them.

2) If a LOS traces into a hex through its Hedgerow hexside, then a non-missile unit and any leader stacked with it are unaffected by incoming missile fire. This does not apply if the target and firer are adjacent.
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