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Warhammer: Diskwars» Forums » Rules

Subject: Impact and choosing cards rss

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Nushura
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Hello all,

Today we played our first (introductory) game, and we had a couple of questions.

1-Say that the orcs win initiative. Then the Boar Boyz on top of a Bright Wizard. The 4 impact kills the wizard, so I guess that the Boar Boyz can keep on moving? Rules say that it should stop if it is pinning, but pinning never occurs, right?

2-Several times it happened to us that the first player to move would win the game (say, either the Orcs impact the hell of humans, or the humans manage to pin the big Orc units). If it is the 2nd or 3rd round we could somehow predict what cards the opponent would play (out of the remaining ones)...but what do you do on the first one? The most important thing in the command card was the initiative (the relentless or additional movement would be secondary). Wasn't the fate of the game decided in the initiative card? Or were we doing something wrong?
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Marc Bennett
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Nushura wrote:

1-Say that the orcs win initiative. Then the Boar Boyz on top of a Bright Wizard. The 4 impact kills the wizard, so I guess that the Boar Boyz can keep on moving? Rules say that it should stop if it is pinning, but pinning never occurs, right?


no actually, you have to pin first, then do the impact damage. so since you pinned a unit, you are done moving.

Nushura wrote:
2-Several times it happened to us that the first player to move would win the game (say, either the Orcs impact the hell of humans, or the humans manage to pin the big Orc units). If it is the 2nd or 3rd round we could somehow predict what cards the opponent would play (out of the remaining ones)...but what do you do on the first one? The most important thing in the command card was the initiative (the relentless or additional movement would be secondary). Wasn't the fate of the game decided in the initiative card? Or were we doing something wrong?


if you were doing the introductory scenario with no terrain, i suggest playing a few full games with terrain and siege units and such. it changes the game quite a bit. i actually find it a rather poor intro to the game.
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MechaBri Zilla
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Unless there is a card in play that gives the Orc Boar Boyz Relentless, they must stop after the first pin, even if impact kills the disk they landed on.

As for the second part of your question, I'm not sure I understand. Usually nothing happens in with the first flip of a command card, just a lot ot maneuvering. In fact, many times, in my games, the whole first round is mostly manuevering, discounting ranged attacks of course.

On the whole, initiative - as in who carries intitiative through the game matters less and less the more you play, in fact, I prefere to loose initative in the hopes of drawing favorable terrian. In my case, I play infantry heavy Orcs and love to see that cave.

As for the individual command card flips, they are ver important. Something to remember is that the discarded command cards are public. You should take a second at the end of the first round to look at your opponents cards and think about how they match up to yours.


Edit: ninja
 
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Jolli Jolivette
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1) The Boar Boyz would not be able to continue their movement. The damage from 'impact' occurs when they pin a disk. So they flip onto the Bright Mage, pin it, and then do impact damage. Since they did indeed pin a disk, they cannot move any further.

2) The first player doesn't always win. The game is very much about movement and positioning though, so you have to be careful with that. So it's not who goes first, it's who can position there disks the best (along with a little luck from ranged attacks).
 
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CJ
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I recently played a 2 regiment game with Empire and High Elf regiments, against Orcs and Chaos. I took two 2 activation cards and although I won initiative I played a deliberate counter-attack strategy (without any ranged units other than a tank). On almost every turn but especially towards the end I wanted my opponent to go first and commit his units. By the end the dead unit tally was 8-1 in my favour and I won by a considerable margin.
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Benjamin Bottorff
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There's a balance between first strike and second strike advantage that defines a lot of how diskwars plays out. Both are potent, though it feels to me like in this diskwars first strike advantage is generally a bit more powerful than in the old one where second strike advantage was much stronger.

That said, there're times when it's great to be able to do stuff after your opponent can no longer do anything about it, and there are times when it's desperately critical that you go first. I find that the former defines most of the manoeuvring and position jockeying parts of the game and the later defines the heat of battle. The fact that the second player also gets choice over scenario, terrain, and deployment zones also makes a big difference.
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Nushura
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Hello all, thanks for your responses.

Clearly, if the Boar Boyz have to stop moving they lose their strength. Even with relentless they can only impact twice...which is less that what we were doing. Phew!! Otherwise I would have had to rush and buy a second core deck to get more of them.

As for the initiative question, I did not mean the initiative marker. As you know the game has 5 rounds, and each round players use a command card. It often happened (anytime other than the first round) whoever got to move first would have a great advantage with respect to its opponent. Say, being able to pin a large disk with a small of my fighters would have a great impact on the game.

In this case not only both players want to go first, but also you have no information on your opponent's cards. Indeed, you know he has such and such card...but let's assume he was smart and has at least 1 of each type ( Bold/Steady/Devious...say for simplicity that the other one is a slow one that he will not play).

Say he has the initative token. I know that his best move is to play the Steady card that gives him X benefit, but he also knows that I know it. So, instead he shuffles his cards and plays one at random. Now I have no information, and I only have 1/3 of chances to win the initiative this time. How can you mitigate this?
 
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Robert Ehlers
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I also thought that going first was a huge deal when I first played the game. So much so, that although I loved everything else about it, I was close to calling it broken and moving on. Then my friend told me about some different strategies and ways to think about it from the posts here on BGG. It made a world of difference and now I actually don't even want to go first usually.

The way you mitigate not being able to improve your odds for going first, is to position your disks and plan your strategy so that you don't need to go first to win.

Here are just a few examples. One, since you didn't get initiative, that means you got to pick terrain first. Pick the hill that is 'defensive'. Put your disks on that to gain swift (defender). Position your archer units behind your lead units and shoot him off of your units if he rushes forward to pin them. Move your scrub units forward first, but with support close behind. Make the distance such that the opponent can only pin those lead scrubs with his furthest reaching disks, then after he pins them, come in with your better units on top and kill them before they can even attack your scrubs below in the melee phase. Some of these ideas probably are not the best, but just stuff I've done or thought about. I am not very experienced in the game yet.
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Benjamin Bottorff
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If he shuffles his cards and picks one, then you are free to just pick your best card and hope. Almost inevitably, there will be one or two cards your opponent "wants" to play and there're probably one or two cards you "want" to play (especially near the end of a match when you may only get to play one or two cards). You have to base your strategy and your mind games around that information. If your opponent is picking one specifically you need to figure out both what he'd want to play and what he'd want to play to counter what you'd want to play.

That said, when both players know what they're doing, it is definitely possible to arrange it so that your enemy going first won't lose you the game, at least until everything breaks down and it's just cleanup. But until that point, there's a lot you can do to come out ahead and have much better odds during 'clean-up' phase, and a lot of those kinds of moves are aided by going last. WH Diskwars is a game with a great deal of momentum and if you can smash your enemy hard enough even if they go first the next turn it frequently won't matter.
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