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Subject: Range, LOS and Faith questions rss

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Dan Cordz
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Hello all, sorry if this has been asked before.

I had a couple questions regarding range, line of sight and faith.

First I just wanted to make sure that range could be counted diagonally and each diagonally adjacent space only counted as one range, as per movement rules. Also, am I correct in believing that if a hero is completely surrounded by monsters on all eight sides, he is unable to see monsters diagonally adjacent to him, as he is unable to trace los through the orthogonally adjacent monsters?

Also, how is the range calculated for cards like the Acolyte's Last Rites? The card says four range to center, yet the diagram shows the center of the attack only being three spaces away from the acolyte, which I'm assuming is what is represented by the black circle and arrow. Also, can this attack be used on monsters who are in range diagonally, or does it have to target a monster in a straight line away from the acolyte? The same question applies to the Apprentice's blood of Gaia and The mountain crumbles.

Lastly, when playing a faith card for its effect which itself has the faith keyword, is the faith on the card itself counted as well? For example, would playing Hand of the Father automatically heal three heroes even without any other faith cards in play? (1 hero automatically for playing the card, +1 for the faith keyword on the card itself, +1 for the acolyte's innate faith). Thanks for your help, the game looks fantastic and the rulebook isn't nearly as bad as I feared, just somewhat ambiguous in places.
 
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Naomi Nabbit
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Range can be counted diagonally as well as orthogonally. I thought that if a hero is surrounded, they could still attack diagonally adjacent monsters since you can draw a line from one corner of the hero to one corner of the monster (the corner that is touching).

Range for spells is the maximum range for the spell's beginning point. For Last Rites, you pick one square within Range 4. That square is automatically hit. Then, if you have at least 1 Faith (which you always will), the spell hits the square orthangonally adjacent to the starting square that's furthest from the Acolyte. Then, it goes clockwise with more Faith, hitting more squares.

For the Blood of Gaia spell, you choose one square within the spell's range. That square is hit. In addition, the square orthagonally adjacent to it that's furthest from the Apprentice is also hit, as well as the two squares on either side of it, forming a short cone shape.

For Fingers of Ia, I played it that the starting square had to be within the listed Range, and then each followup bolt had to be exactly 2 squares away from the previous target square, since that's how I interpreted the card. Does anyone disagree with this interpretation?

Regarding Faith, yes, you add in the Faith on the card itself. So, yeah, Hand of the Father can work on three heroes without any extra sources of Faith.
 
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Tony Pecorelli
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nyren wrote:

Regarding Faith, yes, you add in the Faith on the card itself. So, yeah, Hand of the Father can work on three heroes without any extra sources of Faith.


According to the card reference this isn't so.

A minimum of 1 Hero will always be affected
because of the Acolyte’s base Faith of 1


So if you only have base Faith and the Faith from the card itself then it would only effect 2 heroes.
 
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Dan Cordz
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hatchhermit wrote:
nyren wrote:

Regarding Faith, yes, you add in the Faith on the card itself. So, yeah, Hand of the Father can work on three heroes without any extra sources of Faith.


According to the card reference this isn't so.

A minimum of 1 Hero will always be affected
because of the Acolyte’s base Faith of 1


So if you only have base Faith and the Faith from the card itself then it would only effect 2 heroes.


If you added in the faith from the card itself, then wouldn't the reference say that a minimum of 2 heroes will always be affected, the acolyte's base faith plus the faith from the card itself?
 
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Julian St. Pierre
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I think that maybe the line "This card also supplies a faith" means for all future spells.
 
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T France
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I'm fairly certain I read SOMEwhere that a played Faith card also generates Faith which can be used on itself...
 
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Remi Bureau
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Captain Stupendous wrote:
Hello all, sorry if this has been asked before.

I had a couple questions regarding range, line of sight and faith.

First I just wanted to make sure that range could be counted diagonally and each diagonally adjacent space only counted as one range, as per movement rules. Also, am I correct in believing that if a hero is completely surrounded by monsters on all eight sides, he is unable to see monsters diagonally adjacent to him, as he is unable to trace los through the orthogonally adjacent monsters?

Also, how is the range calculated for cards like the Acolyte's Last Rites? The card says four range to center, yet the diagram shows the center of the attack only being three spaces away from the acolyte, which I'm assuming is what is represented by the black circle and arrow. Also, can this attack be used on monsters who are in range diagonally, or does it have to target a monster in a straight line away from the acolyte? The same question applies to the Apprentice's blood of Gaia and The mountain crumbles.

Lastly, when playing a faith card for its effect which itself has the faith keyword, is the faith on the card itself counted as well? For example, would playing Hand of the Father automatically heal three heroes even without any other faith cards in play? (1 hero automatically for playing the card, +1 for the faith keyword on the card itself, +1 for the acolyte's innate faith). Thanks for your help, the game looks fantastic and the rulebook isn't nearly as bad as I feared, just somewhat ambiguous in places.


Range can be counted orthogonally or diagonally, exactly like movement. If a hero is completely surrounded, he can attack any of the 8 enemies around him. Heroes have line of sight between diagonally adjacent enemies (the only exception being if a monster is directly between the hero and its target :
x=empty
i=invalid target
v=valid target
h=hero
IXX
XVX
XXH

or

VVV
VHV
VVV

Range is calculated like movement, so if the hero attack has a range of 4, he can target a space where he could move to with 4 MP (as if all the spaces were empty).

Faith : I think the best way to explain how to count Faith is, when the effect of the card powered by Faith is triggered, count all the Faith you see in front of you (wether the cards were played before of after the triggered card is irrelevant). But the card itself heals 0 hero, so don't start at 1 plus Faith, it's only Faith that heals. If the first card played in a HC is Hand of the Father, and the Acolyte has his starting gear, then 2 heroes within range are healed (one base Faith, one Hand of the Father).
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Dan Cordz
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RemiBureau wrote:

Faith : I think the best way to explain how to count Faith is, when the effect of the card powered by Faith is triggered, count all the Faith you see in front of you (wether the cards were played before of after the triggered card is irrelevant). But the card itself heals 0 hero, so don't start at 1 plus Faith, it's only Faith that heals. If the first card played in a HC is Hand of the Father, and the Acolyte has his starting gear, then 2 heroes within range are healed (one base Faith, one Hand of the Father).


Okay, this makes sense, except the hero reference section for Hand of the Father explicitly states that "a minimum of 1 hero will always be affected because of the Acolyte's base faith of one." According to your explanation, however, a minimum of 2 heroes will always be affected. Where does the minimum of 1 hero come from? Would it even be possible to be limited to healing 1 hero with this card? If not, why does the reference clearly imply that it is possible to only be able to heal 1 hero? I assume this is a typo in the reference and that it should be edited to say "a minimum of 2 heroes will always be affected because of the Acolyte's base faith of one plus the one faith provided by Hand of the Father."
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Remi Bureau
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Given that 2 heroes are within range, yes, 2 could always be healed.

I think the current description is inaccurate
 
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Tony Pecorelli
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Captain Stupendous wrote:

If you added in the faith from the card itself, then wouldn't the reference say that a minimum of 2 heroes will always be affected, the acolyte's base faith plus the faith from the card itself?


Well, yes. I was trying to point out that the minimum wasn't 3. It's different than say, Last Rites, since for that card you don't need Faith to deal damage to 1 target while Hand of the Father needs 1 Faith to heal one target. In the end, due to the Faith the Acolyte starts with and the Faith on the Hand of the Father card, both Last Rites and Hand of the Father will effect 2 of their respective targets at minimum. Why the reference says only 1 is confusing.
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Wallace MacBix
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hatchhermit wrote:
Captain Stupendous wrote:

If you added in the faith from the card itself, then wouldn't the reference say that a minimum of 2 heroes will always be affected, the acolyte's base faith plus the faith from the card itself?


Well, yes. I was trying to point out that the minimum wasn't 3. It's different than say, Last Rites, since for that card you don't need Faith to deal damage to 1 target while Hand of the Father needs 1 Faith to heal one target. In the end, due to the Faith the Acolyte starts with and the Faith on the Hand of the Father card, both Last Rites and Hand of the Father will effect 2 of their respective targets at minimum. Why the reference says only 1 is confusing.


Really? That's not the way I read it.

Faith
"Restores 3 vit and provides +1 D10 to a Hero. +1 Hero per Faith"

The first sentence should happen no matter what (base 3 heal to 1 hero).
The Acolyte has base +1 faith (another 3 heal to a 2nd hero)
The card provides +1 faith (another 3 heal to a 3rd hero)
+ any extra faith from other cards or items.

Because it says "+1 Hero per faith", not "1 hero per faith" I assumed it came with a "base" heal.


I thought it seemed balanced being an action, costing 2 ap, +4 threat, and having to be stationary.
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Remi Bureau
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I guess it's been subtly errataed... In the latest hero deck reference, it doesn't say +1 hero per Faith, simply : 1 hero per Faith
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