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Subject: CSI has Ogre Deluxe Edition in stock!!! rss

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Clifford Mudd
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Cool Stuff Inc. has over 20 copies of Ogre Deluxe Edition in stock for $119.99 with free shipping, limit one.
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Jeff Michaud
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note this is the "hot deals" forum, not "this etailer now has it in stock"....

$120 is $20 higher than even funagain who has it in stock, and $25 higher than cardhaus who is a pre-order right now but will also have it in stock

http://boardgamegeek.com/geekads/viewall/thing/5206

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/656400/whats-a-hot-deal
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chris leko
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Did they end up doing a second print? I don't see how it can be a pre-order.
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JeffyJeff wrote:
note this is the "hot deals" forum, not "this etailer now has it in stock"....

$120 is $20 higher than even funagain who has it in stock, and $25 higher than cardhaus who is a pre-order right now but will also have it in stock

http://boardgamegeek.com/geekads/viewall/thing/5206

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/656400/whats-a-hot-deal


Not getting into the debate about what is/isn't a "hot deal" but note that Funagain is charging $15 for shipping even though it qualifies for free shipping.
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Justin Wertz
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often wrote:
Did they end up doing a second print? I don't see how it can be a pre-order.


I don't think they're doing any reprints on this edition. These are probably still original stock that was set aside to sell themselves, but are now being distributed to retailers who have sold out.
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Ben R
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To divert the conversation completely, I have a KS copy still in the shipping box. GM me if interested in working something out.
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Eric Johnson
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weezknight wrote:
often wrote:
Did they end up doing a second print? I don't see how it can be a pre-order.


I don't think they're doing any reprints on this edition. These are probably still original stock that was set aside to sell themselves, but are now being distributed to retailers who have sold out.


Correct, no reprints. It is most likely additional stock that was sent out after the holiday break when they did their major warehouse inventory cleanup.
 
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CHAPEL
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Yeah, talking with the SJ guys, they took such a beating with this game financially that it will never see the light of day ever again.

Pre-orders coming is "interesting". Unless they are waiting for a yet unfulfilled order from the distro, I wouldn't hold any online vendor to a pre-order of this.
 
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Paul DeStefano
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Yes, But CSI lists play time as 42-48 minutes.

Talk about specific.
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MWChapel wrote:
Yeah, talking with the SJ guys, they took such a beating with this game financially that it will never see the light of day ever again.

Pre-orders coming is "interesting". Unless they are waiting for a yet unfulfilled order from the distro, I wouldn't hold any online vendor to a pre-order of this.


As I recall, Steve Jackson himself said right from the start of the KS campaign that Ogre Deluxe was created/printed out of love of the game, not because they wanted to make money on it. He also stated that this was a once-only printing that would never be repeated, then goes on to say that Munchkin is SJG's bread-and-butter game and would have paid for Ogre Deluxe, regardless of KS support. KS was used to gauge interest in a 'Deluxe' version of Ogre, it just happened that KS support was over the top and funded a lot of the project on it's own ($900K+ raised).

$100 MSRP was the original prediction from SJG. Retail versions initially sold for $65 a copy at most Internet retailers right after release, but now command a higher price because of dwindling supply and continued demand. KS copies are even more expensive, $200+/copy on Ebay, in most cases.
 
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Just a very honest question, from someone who could break down the costs and things, as I'm curious.

How do you get 900k+ and take a beating financially on the game? I know Kickstarter and amazon take a percentage, which at that number does garner a good chunk, but after that where does the financial hit come from if the left over 900k doesn't fulfill it?

Shouldn't they have, at minimum, broke even?
 
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MWChapel wrote:
Yeah, talking with the SJ guys, they took such a beating with this game financially that it will never see the light of day ever again.

Pre-orders coming is "interesting". Unless they are waiting for a yet unfulfilled order from the distro, I wouldn't hold any online vendor to a pre-order of this.


Cardhaus is a 100% legit business and has fulfilled every pre-order I've ever placed with them. If they're taking pre-orders it means they've got guaranteed copies on the way from one of their distributors.


 
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TheGWD wrote:
Just a very honest question, from someone who could break down the costs and things, as I'm curious.

How do you get 900k+ and take a beating financially on the game? I know Kickstarter and amazon take a percentage, which at that number does garner a good chunk, but after that where does the financial hit come from if the left over 900k doesn't fulfill it?

Shouldn't they have, at minimum, broke even?



Doesn't matter if they took in 3.6 Billion. If their final cost was was 3.61B then there's a loss. Have you ever seen this game in person? Once you have it is VERY easy to see how it could have cost far more to produce and deliver than it is selling for.
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Adam
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Yea, I do not understand this either. I could understand some smaller/newer game companies being unable to predict costs (Glory to Rome might be an example of this?) and/or having manufacturing companies break contracts, etc. But how does SJ undershoot the costs?

Costs to produce game + KS/Amazon fees = Funding Level

TheGWD wrote:
Just a very honest question, from someone who could break down the costs and things, as I'm curious.

How do you get 900k+ and take a beating financially on the game? I know Kickstarter and amazon take a percentage, which at that number does garner a good chunk, but after that where does the financial hit come from if the left over 900k doesn't fulfill it?

Shouldn't they have, at minimum, broke even?
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Ben R
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I would assume they undershot the cost of the stretch goals.
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BentlyCash wrote:
To divert the conversation completely, I have a KS copy still in the shipping box. GM me if interested in working something out.


What do the KS versions have that the retail version does not?
 
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BentlyCash wrote:
I would assume they undershot the cost of the stretch goals.


No need to assume, they've explicitly said as much and it was a lesson widely shared amongst the KS project creator community afterwards.

You need to remember that OGRE was in many respects unprecedented. Doesn't matter how many years SJG has in the business, this was an entirely new beast and this aspect of it was a blind spot.

Reaper Bones did the same in their first KS, and while they didn't take a loss, they've talked about how they made WAY less than they thought they were going to by overlooking the same thing SJG during their KS, and Bones II adjusted accordingly. (WAY more paid add-ons and less stretch goal additions added to core for free)

Every time they added a stretch goal that everyone received they lowered their profit margin by exactly that amount. Doesn't matter how many more were buying because the per unit cost went up for every single new pledge as well.

They counted on economies of scale to compensate but being a completely new kind of production for them they had no hard precedents to properly balance that against all the additional things they wound up promising… for no additional cost to the pledgers.
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Ben R
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RoamDog wrote:
BentlyCash wrote:
To divert the conversation completely, I have a KS copy still in the shipping box. GM me if interested in working something out.


What does the KS versions have that the retail version does not?


http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1066825/difference-between-r...
 
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Dave BG
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Just six left in stock at the moment.
 
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NuMystic wrote:
BentlyCash wrote:
I would assume they undershot the cost of the stretch goals.


No need to assume, they've explicitly said as much and it was a lesson widely shared amongst the KS project creator community afterwards.

You need to remember that OGRE was in many respects unprecedented. Doesn't matter how many years SJG has in the business, this was an entirely new beast and this aspect of it was a blind spot.

Reaper Bones did the same in their first KS, and while they didn't take a loss, they've talked about how they made WAY less than they thought they were going to by overlooking the same thing SJG during their KS, and Bones II adjusted accordingly. (WAY more paid add-ons and less stretch goal additions added to core for free)

Every time they added a stretch goal that everyone received they lowered their profit margin by exactly that amount. Doesn't matter how many more were buying because the per unit cost went up for every single new pledge as well.

They counted on economies of scale to compensate but being a completely new kind of production for them they had no hard precedents to properly balance that against all the additional things they wound up promising… for no additional cost to the pledgers.


Here is Reaper's spending breakdown from their KS, as run by a team of accountants with relatively few mistakes. http://www.reapermini.com/misc/KS_bones1_piechart.png

I think we can safely assume Ogre had a much higher % going into shipping costs due to its weight. Even without the production issues it had that probably did in any hopes of breaking even.
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Michael Off The Shelf Board Game Reviews
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A quarter of a million isn't too bad actually.
 
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Kaacee wrote:
Yea, I do not understand this either. I could understand some smaller/newer game companies being unable to predict costs (Glory to Rome might be an example of this?) and/or having manufacturing companies break contracts, etc. But how does SJ undershoot the costs?

Costs to produce game + KS/Amazon fees = Funding Level


The KS didn't work that way. They didn't underestimate the costs (or at least, they didn't base the price on an underestimation). Steve Jackson said "it's going to be $100" and everyone else at SJG either sighed or smiled or rolled their eyes and said "okay boss". That's why I enjoyed it so much - it was a completely goofy, fun project without any consideration to making money. An insanely over-produced version of a fairly simple game. Ridiculously huge. And just plain silly fun.
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Phil Reed, who's employed to tell SJG not to do things like this, told SJG not do to this. IIRC, Munchkin Apocalypse was profitable in two weeks. Ogre was not profitable at all.

Also, had SJG not told retailers it would MSRP for $100, its MSRP would be $400.

When's Car Wars coming out?
 
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