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1775: Rebellion» Forums » Rules

Subject: Who makes the command decisions for the French and the Hessians? rss

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Jay Kiley
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Is there an official rule on it? I checked the other posts and the Academy Games website and can find nothing.
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Moe45673
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Chris
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GreatDebate wrote:
Is there an official rule on it? I checked the other posts and the Academy Games website and can find nothing.
That'll be because you're over thinking it. You *might* get into a muddle if you're used to playing 4 player and split roles between the two different factions on each side, but really there's no distinction in any area within the rules. white / blue / purple on one side, red / yellow / orange on the other... and then the greens with a big * next to them. That's all.
 
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Alex Drazen
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I'd think, if you cannot agree with your partner, the final decision would fall to the active player. But normal people would talk and come to a consensus (specifically, you don't let French or Hessian troops die most times), because you can't get extras the way you always get four of the basic factions.
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Chris
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alexdrazen wrote:
I'd think, if you cannot agree with your partner, the final decision would fall to the active player. But normal people would talk and come to a consensus (specifically, you don't let French or Hessian troops die most times), because you can't get extras the way you always get four of the basic factions.
If you can't agree about that, then how are you supposed to agree about moving your partners troops??
 
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Alex Drazen
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Quote:
If you can't agree about that, then how are you supposed to agree about moving your partners troops??


Most times I've played, it's come down to either:

(a) Consensus

(b) One person not wanting to argue about it anymore, or

(c) Both people wanting to argue about it, but finally giving the Active Player all final decision-making power.
 
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Chris
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alexdrazen wrote:
Quote:
If you can't agree about that, then how are you supposed to agree about moving your partners troops??


Most times I've played, it's come down to either:

(a) Consensus

(b) One person not wanting to argue about it anymore, or

(c) Both people wanting to argue about it, but finally giving the Active Player all final decision-making power.
I did quite like a video someone posted here a month ago about enforcing a thematic "message to the front line" where the non-active player was allowed to make a statement of their thoughts and then STFU.
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Kevin Duke
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Yeah, you don't want TOO much talking between partners.

 
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Martin Gallo
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As I recall the active player controls the units activated. Always.
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Jay Kiley
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kduke wrote:
Yeah, you don't want TOO much talking between partners.



Sometimes talking results in a stalemate between partners, and a command decision simply needs to be made. In that case, an official rule would be nice concerning who makes decisions for the allied units.

In fact, if you're not going to assign these decisions to an individual, then why give any individual player control over any particular faction? Why not make every decision a team decision? After all, that would be the ultimate embodiment of "team play".

To me, the game feels like it's missing some crucial information without this particular rule.

And before anyone takes some slight criticism as an affront to the entire game and a reason to defend it to the death, just know that I love the game. Uwe taught me 1812 at Origins a couple years ago, and I've been a fan of the series ever since.
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Jeph Stahl
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GreatDebate wrote:

In fact, if you're not going to assign these decisions to an individual, then why give any individual player control over any particular faction? Why not make every decision a team decision? After all, that would be the ultimate embodiment of "team play".


I don't agree that a group consensus on every decision is considered team play. My definition of "team play" is where every player can make decisions for the same common goal.

An active player has the final say on Command Decisions of non-player allied units.
In a defensive situation, if both defensive factions are present in that battle, the final say goes to the British Army/American Regulars. Otherwise it goes to the defensive faction present.

This is a pretty arbitrary ruling, but there it is.
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Thierry Mattray
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jstahl wrote:


An active player has the final say on Command Decisions of non-player allied units.
In a defensive situation, if both defensive factions are present in that battle, the final say goes to the British Army/American Regulars. Otherwise it goes to the defensive faction present.

This is a pretty arbitrary ruling, but there it is.


it makes sense.
 
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Chad B
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martimer wrote:
As I recall the active player controls the units activated. Always.


This. It is the same as with Green or your partner's units. You have to have at least one of your units in the army, but for your turn can include any and all the units in that area.

Section 3.2.1 wrote:

3.2.1 Armies are formed from units in the same area. An
army can be formed with units from factions and allies of the
same side. A player can include all or some of the units, but at
least 1 unit in the army must belong to the Active Player. The
Active Player can then move the army.


Here is a link to the latest version (v1.3) of the rules book.
 
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Chris
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Crap. Another rule I misread. I think. The phrase "Active Player" seems ambiguous though as the "Active Player is the human sitting infront of the board, right? As opposed to the "Active Faction" or some such. Not ambiguous enough to not understand what it means though. As I learnt to play 1 on 1 I guess I interpretted this differently and never went back to the original wording.

Suddenly the original question is more valid than I thought :/
 
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Martin Gallo
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The active player is the person controlling the forces of the currently active initiative cube.
 
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Chris
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martimer wrote:
The active player is the person controlling the forces of the currently active initiative cube.
by this interpretation then, a player can make armies in a 1v1 game that they can't in 2v2.
 
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Martin Gallo
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TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
martimer wrote:
The active player is the person controlling the forces of the currently active initiative cube.
by this interpretation then, a player can make armies in a 1v1 game that they can't in 2v2.
Yes. But the same armies are made, except that in a 2vn game the two players are free to make their own choices.

The "issue" is that an army is only able to be created by the active player using at least one cube of his color in a space (along with whatever else is there, including cubes of the other faction on his side of the war). In a 1vn game the player makes ALL the choices for his side. in a 2vn game those decisions are shared for the side, but the decision is up to the active/initiative faction's controlling/active player.

In any of the 4 combinations of player vs player count, the active player makes the final decision, much to the derision, fear, admiration, gratitude, disgust and awe of the other player(s).

In a 1v1 game one player plays both of the factions of each side. All four factions are activated every game turn (barring a sudden death victory). Every time an initiative cube is drawn that army (color) is activated and plays cards. Each faction has a three card hand.

I think I may have missed whatever point you were trying to make. I am not sure what other interpretation there could be, unless you play by something otter than the rules that the game is intended to be played by.
 
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Chris
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The point is that the rule relates to the bum on the seat, not the cubes on the board. If I'm playing 1v1 then I control both red and yellow. If it's 2v2 then I only control red. So if it's about the "active player" and not the "active faction" then on a red turn I can make an army of just yellow as I am the active player and I control both colours.

I have no doubt this sounds petty but again, the rules very explicitly state player, not faction.
 
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Martin Gallo
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WhoopsblushI got stuck on active player when I meant active faction. Sorry about that. The player controlling the active faction activates one cube of the active faction from a space and creates an army there out of ANY cubes on that faction's side in that space.

It was clear in my head, but my head was not clear enough to type such a simple concept properly.

So sorry.
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Thomas Moon
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jstahl wrote:
GreatDebate wrote:

In fact, if you're not going to assign these decisions to an individual, then why give any individual player control over any particular faction? Why not make every decision a team decision? After all, that would be the ultimate embodiment of "team play".


I don't agree that a group consensus on every decision is considered team play. My definition of "team play" is where every player can make decisions for the same common goal.

An active player has the final say on Command Decisions of non-player allied units.
In a defensive situation, if both defensive factions are present in that battle, the final say goes to the British Army/American Regulars. Otherwise it goes to the defensive faction present.

This is a pretty arbitrary ruling, but there it is.


This is similar to the rule that we use - although admittedly we always feel very uncertain when we have to make up a rule. I agree that something official would help - especially when you have a team prone to debate (which is a clear reality in gaming.)
 
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Thomas Moon
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TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
alexdrazen wrote:
I'd think, if you cannot agree with your partner, the final decision would fall to the active player. But normal people would talk and come to a consensus (specifically, you don't let French or Hessian troops die most times), because you can't get extras the way you always get four of the basic factions.
If you can't agree about that, then how are you supposed to agree about moving your partners troops??


According to the rules, you don't have to agree. The active player makes the call.
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Thomas Moon
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kduke wrote:
Yeah, you don't want TOO much talking between partners.



Of course, you want dialogue among teammates, but sometimes talking leads to debate and impasse. In a game where decisions need to be made, there should be a clear rule about who gets to make the final call - in case an impasse is reached.

Happens all the time.
 
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