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Subject: Newb Questions about 'Arkham Horror' rss

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Daniel Kotzin
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After reading the rules of 'Arkham Horror' I have a few questions:
1. Why and when would monsters go to the Outskirts?
2. What does it mean for a monster to 'stir in its slumber?'
3. Can you go beyond the Sanity/Stanima listed on your character sheet?
4. People say that this can take 3-7 hours, but isn't a Doom marker placed whenever a Gate opens (which happens pretty much every turn when you draw a Mythos card)?
Answers would be appreciated!
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Kārlis Jēriņš
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1) They go there when you exceed the monster limit in Arkham, which is number of investigators + 3. And you will exceed it.

2) Assuming you mean the text on the Ancient Ones (or Great Old Ones - I'm not exactly sure of the differences in meaning between these two terms), nothing particular. It's just a fancy way of saying that this here effect applies from the start of the game until the great being awakes and you begin the final battle.

3) Not unless you first increase your maximum Sanity/Stamina. There are a few effects (notably, allies) who let you do that.

4) Yes, you place a Doom marker every time a gate opens. However, when you have something like 4 gates open at the same time and/or sealed gates, the odds are pretty big that the Mythos card you draw will either tell you to place a gate at a sealed location, in which case nothing happens (including no Doom marker) or at a location where there is already a gate, in which case there is a monster surge, but no Doom marker.
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MM
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Great answers!

Welcome to the obsession, Daniel!
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Noreen
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And keep in mind that there is a monster limit for the Outskirts as well.
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Tibs
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TheNameWasTaken wrote:
2) Assuming you mean the text on the Ancient Ones (or Great Old Ones - I'm not exactly sure of the differences in meaning between these two terms), nothing particular. It's just a fancy way of saying that this here effect applies from the start of the game until the great being awakes and you begin the final battle.

Not exactly. The effect is in play all game, including final combat.
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Greg Frank
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The lengths also depends on how many players you have, how long they take to take a turn. Which old one you have as some have longer tracks. What strategies you use, seal gats (as someone mentioned above) can get you to victory but can also make the game a bit longer if you seal a couple and aren't getting them sealed quickly. But I have played the game in 2 hours or less with 3 experienced players really easily. While played a very long session with 8 players and half left in the middle. Also adding expansions in can make the game go longer.
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Teeka
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kungfro wrote:
TheNameWasTaken wrote:
2) Assuming you mean the text on the Ancient Ones (or Great Old Ones - I'm not exactly sure of the differences in meaning between these two terms), nothing particular. It's just a fancy way of saying that this here effect applies from the start of the game until the great being awakes and you begin the final battle.

Not exactly. The effect is in play all game, including final combat.
While I know this to be true, it has always struck me as odd.

I mean, why use terms like "awakening" and "stirring in its slumber", when the slumbering does not end at the point of awakening... just doesn't make sense.

(Yeah yeah I know, theme and rules don't necessarily mix.. but I'd say if this is how it's supposed to work, then don't name it like that. Just say "ongoing effect" or whatever.)
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Tibs
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You're right. It was a bad choice of wording, and this often causes people to make this (wrong) assumption.

In truth it doesn't affect most final combats (Only Cthulhu in the base game). In fact, there is one AO where I think that slumber ability wasn't intended to be extended to final combat: Quachil Uttaus.
 
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Teeka
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kungfro wrote:
You're right. It was a bad choice of wording, and this often causes people to make this (wrong) assumption.
I can't help but think it's more than just an accidental bad choice, but a deliberate thing that was supposed to work the intuitive way first, but changed later.

kungfro wrote:
In truth it doesn't affect most final combats (Only Cthulhu in the base game). In fact, there is one AO where I think that slumber ability wasn't intended to be extended to final combat: Quachil Uttaus.
So, what you're saying is there's only 1 where it matters, and also 1 where it's actually better not? (Note that I haven't properly played all AO's yet, I don't really know if there's more.)

Then what would be the harm to ignore the official ruling and play the intuitive way? Would base game Chtulhu suffer too much?
I'm fine with playing the 'official way' of course, but I'll gladly ignore a ruling like that in favor of a more intuitive play if it doesn't matter much anyway.

Btw, kudos for the beautiful word sequence "intended to be extended"
 
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Bern Harkins
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Teeka wrote:

Then what would be the harm to ignore the official ruling and play the intuitive way? Would base game Chtulhu suffer too much?
I'm fine with playing the 'official way' of course, but I'll gladly ignore a ruling like that in favor of a more intuitive play if it doesn't matter much anyway.


It would certainly matter for Cthulhu, and for Eihort (from Kingsport), but I don't think it would matter for any other official GOO.

I would, myself, continue to apply the "Slumber" power with Eihort, as it makes him much more challenging/terrifying.

I'd never realized that, as Tibs said, Quachil Uttaus' "Slumber" power was probably meant to be dropped once he awoke. It hardly makes any difference; it's not like you have any reasonable chance to defeat him, and we have always conceded any game where he awoke.
 
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Teeka
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Actually, before learning of the official ruling, we never saw the entire "power" part as being in effect while slumbering, if that phrasing was used. Just the part that actually says that bit. The rest of the power would apply always.
We thought this made sense as not all powers are written as "while stirring in its slumber".

(Taking the text off the AH wiki, as I'm not home at the moment):

1.
While Cthulhu stirs in his slumber, investigators have their maximum Sanity and maximum Stamina reduced by 1.

2.
While Eihort stirs in his slumber, any investigator who seals a gate gains 1 brood token. Any brood tokens on an investigator who is devoured are immediately added to Eihort's doom track as doom tokens. Eihort can exceed 12 doom tokens on his doom track.

We would say, intuitively, that in both cases only the bold stuff applies while the AO is not-awakened. Because that is the part that is preceded by "while stirring in slumber". The rest is just more parts of the greater collection of effects called 'power'.

So in Chtulu's case investigators would lose the reductions as soon as they enter final battle, which makes a difference.
But in Eihort's case, nothing would change because even though the bold text no longer applies, you're not going to seal any more gates anyway.

Edit:
Just re-read Quachil's text, and my above way of approach doesn't work there. It would have, if the text had been:
"Shuffle the three dust decks at the start of the game and place them facedown on this sheet. While Quachil Uttaus stirs in his slumber, at the start of each turn, the first player must either spend 2 clue tokens or draw a card from the lowest-numbered dust deck that still has undrawn cards in it.".

Ugh...
 
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Tibs
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Teeka wrote:
So, what you're saying is there's only 1 where it matters, and also 1 where it's actually better not? (Note that I haven't properly played all AO's yet, I don't really know if there's more.)

Then what would be the harm to ignore the official ruling and play the intuitive way? Would base game Chtulhu suffer too much?
I'm fine with playing the 'official way' of course, but I'll gladly ignore a ruling like that in favor of a more intuitive play if it doesn't matter much anyway.


No no, there's only one instance in the base game: you don't get back your lost maximum sanity and stamina once Cthulhu awakens.

Once you start using expansions with other AOs (or even start using Kingsport's Epic Battle cards), the slumber abilities become more relevant.

Here are all the examples I can think up:

Against Cthulhu (AH) and revised Cthulhu (AN), you start the battle at -1 max sanity and stamina. That is: you don't get back the maximums you lost at the start of the game.

An investigator holding an Elder Sign will experience -1 on all checks against Chaugnar Faugn (IH).

Part of Eihort's (KH) ability actually feeds him doom tokens when an investigator dies.

Glaaki's (DH) terror level increases if an investigator dies during final combat (from Paranoia or an Epic Battle card).

One of Nyatlathotep's (AH) Sinister Plot cards (KH) has you battling Mask monsters. You don't take the monsters out of the cup at the start of the battle.

I assume Quachil Uttaus (IH) has a typo and he wasn't supposed to apply his Footprints ability during final combat. But when in doubt, don't make that assumption.

A Sinister Plot card (KH) for Shub-Niggurath (AH) requires you to fight Dark Young. The extra toughness is important.

Shudde M'ell's (DH) attack is his slumber ability.


The take-away point is that, simply, all AO abilities are always active. (LOL, that clause has six words in a row that start with "a".)
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Teeka
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kungfro wrote:
Once you start using expansions with other AOs (or even start using Kingsport's Epic Battle cards), the slumber abilities become more relevant.

Here are all the examples I can think up:
Ok, yeah.. I see it's not going to work ignoring the official ruling. No prob, just a little bit of a shame as I liked the idea of things only happening before the awakening. And the phrase "stirring in its slumber".

kungfro wrote:
The take-away point is that, simply, all AO abilities are always active. (LOL, that clause has six words in a row that start with "a".)
An absolutely amazing amount, almighty amigo!
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Tibs
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Well a thematic sidestep is to consider that when an AO is awake, the world is doomed and the investigators lose. Final combat is just a transitional phase between asleep and awake, which explains why survival gets harder and harder.
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Teeka
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kungfro wrote:
Well a thematic sidestep is to consider that when an AO is awake, the world is doomed and the investigators lose. Final combat is just a transitional phase between asleep and awake, which explains why survival gets harder and harder.
That totally works for me! Thanks! thumbsupthumbsup
 
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