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Subject: Pheremones doesn't get played in Gabe... rss

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Dave Sutcliffe
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...overkill?
 
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Nathaniel Kernes
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Magicdave wrote:
...overkill?

Mostly Gabe does not have the MU for it without running a chip so it is not worth the deck space.
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Lysander
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If I had MU for it and it worked with Sneakdoor, I'd consider it.
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Dirk Tebben
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It's just not that great a card, next to comparable but more versatile ones like Desperado and Datasucker. What do you cut for it?

Maybe Savoir-Faire will make it a little more playable, but probably not even then.
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Dave Sutcliffe
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Lysander1 wrote:
If I had MU for it and it worked with Sneakdoor, I'd consider it.


Ah, hadn't put 2 and 2 together with Sneakdoor.

I was imagining a rig that transitioned from Sneakdoor into Breakers + Pheremones with the Pheremones ideally charged already from your Sneakdoor runs.
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FirstName LastName
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Well, it works with Sneakdoor in the sense that Sneakdoor puts virus counters onto Pheromones which enable you to Account Siphon for cheaper (if money was the problem getting into HQ).
 
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mathew rynich
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Yeah Sneakdoor is the big bottleneck. I try to never run more than desperado for extra memort in criminal to keep them fast. Maybe a criminal running Djinn to tutor some other virus package could make better use of it.

I'd certainly like to use it with Knight to make those HQ runs free or cheaper each turn. 2 subroutine ice really suck for decks that want to use Knight for early game aggression (gotta get that E3 out quick).

The routine now is run HQ till it's too expensive then install sneakdoor and run till it's too expensive. By then hopefully the game is over.
 
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Dave Sutcliffe
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DrTall wrote:
Well, it works with Sneakdoor in the sense that Sneakdoor puts virus counters onto Pheromones which enable you to Account Siphon for cheaper (if money was the problem getting into HQ).


Ah, in that case my gameplan does work.

Hit HQ. They rez. Sneakdoor + Pheremones, hit Archives into HQ. Charge Pheremones. They rez. Hit HQ again using the Pheremones you got from Sneakdoor, overwriting Sneakdoor with your rig.

1 Gordian Blade
1 Corroder
1 Femme Fatale/Ninja
1 Crypsis

3 Pheremones
3 Sneakdoor Beta

Something like that.
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Zeb
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My favorite interaction is with Vamp

You can use the Pheremones credits to vamp the corp down without paying anything yourself!
 
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C Spiekerman
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I had some reasonable success with this list:

Gaberomes

Gabriel Santiago: Consummate Professional (Core Set)

Event (17)
3x Account Siphon (Core Set)
3x Easy Mark (Core Set)
3x Emergency Shutdown (Cyber Exodus)
3x Special Order (Core Set)
3x Sure Gamble (Core Set)
2x Vamp (Trace Amount) ••••

Hardware (12)
3x Desperado (Core Set)
3x Dyson Mem Chip (Trace Amount)
1x HQ Interface (Humanity's Shadow)
1x Lemuria Codecracker (Core Set)
2x Plascrete Carapace (What Lies Ahead)
2x R&D Interface (Future Proof) ••••

Resource (4)
3x Armitage Codebusting (Core Set)
1x Mr. Li (Future Proof)

Icebreaker (6)
1x Corroder (Core Set) ••
1x Crypsis (Core Set)
2x Faerie (Future Proof)
1x Ninja (Core Set)
1x ZU.13 Key Master (What Lies Ahead) ••

Program (6)
3x Pheromones (Humanity's Shadow)
1x Self-modifying Code (Creation and Control) •••
2x Sneakdoor Beta (Core Set)

15 influence spent (max 15)
45 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Creation and Control

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.

Wow, I hadn't noticed that it doesn't use anything past C&C! Interesting.

Anyway, there was always the possibility of getting locked out early. But if you could get the Pheromones running, then it was free accesses to HQ every turn (and those lovely 3 credits). I stopped playing it as much because of Power Shutdown (Lemuria is in there for Power Shutdown protection mostly), and it had a hard time closing people out. The R&D interfaces helped a little there (had The Source in those slots before).

I'd be quite interested if the talented minds here could help tweak this to a more competitive build! Please, have a go.
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Dave Sutcliffe
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Random Gabe Attempt

Gabriel Santiago Consummate Professional

Event (21)

3x Account Siphon
1x Blackmail
2x Dirty Laundry
2x Emergency Shutdown
2x Hostage
3x Inside Job
1x Lawyer Up
1x Levy AR Lab Access •••
3x Special Order
3x Sure Gamble

Hardware (7)

3x Desperado
2x HQ Interface
2x Plascrete Carapace

Resource (8)

2x Armitage Codebusting
1x Kati Jones
1x Mr. Li
2x Same Old Thing
2x The Source ••••

Icebreaker (4)

1x Corroder ••
1x Crypsis
1x Femme Fatale
1x Gordian Blade •••

Program (5)

1x Imp •••
2x Pheromones
2x Sneakdoor Beta


Probably spending Influence on stuff like Imp and Levy that should really just be Knights.
 
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Zeb
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Edit: to cspieker

I would take out the codecracker.

Why x3 Dyson Mem Chip?
 
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Steve Houston
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You could try it with Blackguard. Then you have enough MU!
 
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C Spiekerman
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Zebadiah wrote:
Edit: to cspieker

I would take out the codecracker.

Why x3 Dyson Mem Chip?


Yeah, Codecracker is certainly space to work with. It is useful to prevent ZU from getting power shutdown, and great if you are playing someone who is playing traps, since if things are going well, HQ access is a mandatory first click, gain 3 credits, thing.

The Dyson Mem Chips are to give enough memory to run the Pheromones plus Sneakdoor. Usually you charge the Pheromones using Sneakdoor, so you'll want them installed at the same time. With one Dyson plus Desperado you usally have enough memory . With two Dyson installed you acually have extra, since the second link brings free hosting for Zu. And, as a side benefit, the link is nice against Vipers and Caduceus's that are all over the place nowadays. The Dyson's are a definite tempo hit though, that is for sure.

I'm not sure how MagicDave's list is going to work out without any extra mem
 
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mathew rynich
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My guess is he's not going to grab his entire breaker suite until he needs to and at that point he'll trash sneakdoor. I also imagine he's only counting on getting 1 Pheromone out.

I think when he plays it a bit he'll find he'd rather have Knight in the deck. With Knight's strength then Pheromone makes more sense as an include rather than a Datasucker.
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Cedric Bertolini
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There's this decklist built by x3rOh0ur on netrunnerdb:

Gabepire Mala tempora update

Gabriel Santiago: Consummate Professional (Core Set)

Event (19)
3x Account Siphon (Core Set)
3x Easy Mark (Core Set)
3x Emergency Shutdown (Cyber Exodus)
3x Running Interference (Mala Tempora)
2x Special Order (Core Set)
3x Sure Gamble (Core Set)
2x Vamp (Trace Amount) ••••

Hardware (3)
3x Doppelgänger (A Study in Static)

Resource (6)
3x Mr. Li (Future Proof)
3x Same Old Thing (Creation and Control)

Icebreaker (5)
1x Corroder (Core Set) ••
2x Crypsis (Core Set)
1x Femme Fatale (Core Set)
1x Gordian Blade (Core Set) •••

Program (12)
3x Djinn (Core Set) ••••• •
3x Gorman Drip v1 (Opening Moves)
3x Pheromones (Humanity's Shadow)
3x Sneakdoor Beta (Core Set)

15 influence spent (max 15)
45 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Mala Tempora

Decklist published on NetrunnerDB.
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Anton Ribbenstedt
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I have been thinking along the same lines. Love the idea of free credits for installing things. Something along these lines to utilize unspent creds after HQ-runs:

Gabe HQFreeloader

Gabriel Santiago: Consummate Professional (Core Set)

Event (14)
3x Account Siphon (Core Set)
2x Dirty Laundry (Creation and Control)
3x Emergency Shutdown (Cyber Exodus)
3x Special Order (Core Set)
3x Sure Gamble (Core Set)

Hardware (13)
3x Desperado (Core Set)
3x Dyson Mem Chip (Trace Amount)
3x HQ Interface (Humanity's Shadow)
1x Lemuria Codecracker (Core Set)
2x Plascrete Carapace (What Lies Ahead)
1x R&D Interface (Future Proof) ••

Resource (7)
3x Kati Jones (Humanity's Shadow)
2x Mr. Li (Future Proof)
2x Personal Workshop (Cyber Exodus) ••••• •••

Icebreaker (6)
1x Corroder (Core Set) ••
2x Faerie (Future Proof)
1x Femme Fatale (Core Set)
1x Ninja (Core Set)
1x ZU.13 Key Master (What Lies Ahead) ••

Program (5)
3x Pheromones (Humanity's Shadow)
2x Sneakdoor Beta (Core Set)

14 influence spent (max 15)
45 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Creation and Control

Deck built on http://netrunnerdb.com.

or a more Femme heavy variant with Savior if you want to the influence for vamps and R&D interfaces instead
 
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Dave Sutcliffe
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cspieker wrote:

I'm not sure how MagicDave's list is going to work out without any extra mem


I've got Desperado, and 5MU is all you need.

You got Sneakdoor (2MU) to Sneakdoor + Pheremones + partial Rig to Pheremones + full Rig (4 to 5MU if you've got 2 Pheremones)

As I said, I think I'm spending 6 influence on Levy and Imp that should just be Knights.
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John Meindersee II
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I've been doing well in the BGG League on OCTGN with this deck:

Hot Gabe

Identity:
Gabriel Santiago: Consummate Professional (Core)


Total Cards: (45)

Event (19)
Account Siphon (Core #18) x3
Emergency Shutdown (Cyber Exodus #43) x3
Dirty Laundry (Creation and Control #52) x3
Sure Gamble (Core #50) x3
Special Order (Core #22) x3
Indexing (Future Proof #106) x1 ■■■
Inside Job (Core #21) x1
Levy AR Lab Access (Creation and Control #35) x1 ■■■
Diesel (Core #34) x1 ■■

Hardware (7)
HQ Interface (Humanity's Shadow #85) x2
Desperado (Core #24) x3
Plascrete Carapace (What Lies Ahead #9) x2

Program (12)
Sneakdoor Beta (Core #28) x2
Corroder (Core #7) x2 ■■
Faerie (Future Proof #104) x3
Gordian Blade (Core #43) x1 ■■■
Garrote (True Colors #65) x1
Pheromones (Humanity's Shadow #86) x3

Resource (7)
Mr. Li (Future Proof #105) x3
Bank Job (Core #29) x2
Armitage Codebusting (Core #53) x2


Influence Values Totals -
Anarch: 4
Criminal: 74
Shaper: 11
 
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mathew rynich
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I don't know what other people's experience has been, but I've found that I rarely pull the trigger on Levy. The only time I've found it useful is in decks like Exile and Professor where they are speeding through their deck on purpose (which is surprisingly thematic). I guess in a Wyldside deck also it would be nice to keep cards cycling.

In Criminal it's usually the events I want to reuse and in that sense I've had more success with a Same Old Thing on the board. If it's programs you want then a couple Clone Chips are better. My games have not been going long enough to make Levy useful most of the time. I say this and now I'll run into a long stream of slow play glacier decks.

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Kyle James
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I personally don't play Levy in that many decks.

However, think of it as a fail safe. You never want to play it, but sometimes one of your one of breakers get trashed, or your about to run out of cards vs Jinteki PE, and you use it. Yeah it takes a deck slot, and 3 influence, so i rarely play it, but that is it's usual purpose. Many of the decks that splash it play lots of draw too quickly dig through their deck, or are criminal that have no other recursion options. I think it's best in decks with same old thing so you don't mind trashing it in to your heap and playing it later when it's vital.
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John Meindersee II
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Also remember that Levy is like an expensive Quality Time that also recycles your heap if it's the last card you play in your hand...
 
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Sean Trundle
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I've had a good deal of success with a Knight/Pheromones build in Gabe. With one Knight out, you can force them to rez multiple ice on HQ. Then install Sneakdoor, switch over, and force multiple rezzes on Archives. If the game's not over yet, fall back on traditional breakers.
 
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Beyer
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Alsciende wrote:
...
Program (12)
3x Djinn (Core Set) ••••• •
3x Gorman Drip v1 (Opening Moves)
3x Pheromones (Humanity's Shadow)
3x Sneakdoor Beta (Core Set)
.


Djinn for the sneakdoor and doppelganger for the immediate free run you get from the sneakdoor break-in, now with more pheromones?
I hate dislike the current state of ease with which you can build for criminals so much...
 
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