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Subject: What is it about Reluctant Enemies? rss

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武士に二言無し
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Hi!

I deeply respect your enthusiasm for this game, but ...
Do you think that after RE release all will change? With only RE and after two/three plays, veteran players will return to "monster" dimension.
I buy RE only and solely for having just a new title in my "magazine", absolutely not interest in the PG that is an additional cost that I would have preferred not having to pay.
And knowing a little the uman nature, after RE little or nothing will change in possibilities of play.
I started playing OCS for the "complexity and challenge" not to play scenario-like campaign, so RE will be a drop in the sea of OCS titles old and future.
Finally, to all new player of OCS, study forty or so pages of rules and after ... you want to play biggest campaign not only "one map, with 60 or so combat units (both players) in action at any given time".

See you on the Battlefield!

F.
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Mike Hoyt

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You mentioned availability, which is a big part.

Every time I've decided to try OCS I find recommendations for Tunisia, but I can't find a copy. So I lose interest and move on. Probably been around that cycle a half dozen times now. RE is at least something I can buy, though I'm currently at that part of the cycle where I don't think I want to learn OCS anyway and therefore am sitting on my hands.

And that is at least in part to the other phenomenon you mention, lots of guys who own OCS titles, but don't play them. I know that's hardly limited to OCS, is in fact fairly common in wargaming, but with people who've already spent the money, and have the game on the shelf, still not finding time/energy to take it on, do I really want to fall into that same camp myself? No, but I can see where somebody currently in that situation might hope that RE is just what they need to break the ice and get going.

I hope RE is a huge success and broadens the number of people playing OCS, including me
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Bobby Ramsey
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aka Tankboy wrote:
Is it because RE is being marketed as an OCS Introductory game? Or is it because of the single map and minimal counter density?


For me, it's these. I had just started punching TBL and had preordered Korea when I saw RE pop up for preorder. As I don't really know anyone around with an OCS interest (or even a historical wargame interest) it seemed like this was worth waiting for.
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Uncle John
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I don't know what camp I fit into. I've owned Tunisia for years. I started reading the rules (and liked what I was reading) but then got sidetracked and never got back.

I happened upon Hipshot playing TBL on Youtube probably a year and a half ago and the itch started growing. I always had something else to do or play though.

When I saw the intro promotion for RE and Korea reprint I decided to commit and preordered those. And then subsequently picked up Burma and Baltic Gap during Schilling's firesale.

It's funny your asking about why not use an existing module to learn with a smaller scenario because I started reading the rules again a month or so ago with that intention. But then decided to get some other unplayed things out of the way and wait to use RE as my learning game.

Of course with the way I jump in and out of things, I may still be saying the same thing a year from now. But I'm really going to try to bear down and not to delay when RE arrives. angry
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Rory Colling
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Similar to LEGION WARGAMES SLOUCH HATS & EGG SHELLS!
 
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Mike Hoyt

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Are you kidding me! Here I am torturing myself about maybe buying RE and Legion already has a game on the same subject? And I have a strong preference for Legion... oh my, well that makes a decision easy...

Slouch Hats & Eggshells

Hmmm, OK, not so much. Slouch Hats doesn't sound very good.
 
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Curtis Baer
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Mike,

Slouch Hats is quite good. It's a Vance von Borries game. It is certainly a different scale (10 mile hexes, 3 turns to a month, and regiments), but it covers the whole campaign, to include points out in the eastern desert of Syria, Queen Zonobia's Palmyra and the like. It has event cards, and other cool stuff, it's a great little game.

RE is a completely different scale, system and focus. 2.5 miles to the hex, 1/4 week turns, battalion maneuver units, and the campaign involves only the main event; the battles for Damascus, the coast battles to get to Beirut and the battles up the valley to reach Rayak airbase. It's just different.

Operation Exporter was picked because it was a small campaign. Not a lot of units or game turns, very manageable in OCS terms. In addition Chip Saltsman has created a great players, how to play "primer" - the OCS Starter Guide.It's a fully illustrated after action report of how to play the system using the first turn of a Reluctant Enemies game as an example. So, from the outset this game was meant to be a learning tool for how to play the OCS.

My recommendation, do yourself a favor and get them both. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

CHB
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Bryan White
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I'm getting RE for the step by step instructions. I own numerous OCS games that I've never played because the system is, to me, fantastically complex. Now, my love is ASL so I don't mind complexity but I don't have a great deal of self confidence & I appreciate some hand holding. I met a chap from MMP at WO2012 who was showing off Last Chance for Victory (I can't recall his name)who mentioned that there was going to be a small OCS title coming out exactly for people suffering from this condition. There you go! I've gone over the Tunisia step by step, which is very well written and obviously the result of a lot of hard work, but health and other distractions kept me from following through. So I'm gonna finally get this game, learn the system & let it rock! I could, probably should, have done as suggested & learned the game already as you suggest; things just never jelled and this is a chance to get another copy of the game and really learn it. I ought to have it late next week & I'm going to sit & get into this game system. I've always been queer for it just from seeing the possibilities. I may wind up loving this like ASL & I REALLY love that!
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Curtis Baer
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Bryan,

That was me at WO 2013 play testing Dean's Last Chance for Victory.

I think you will appreciate Reluctant Enemies as way to learn the OCS.

Good luck. Let me know if you any questions.

CHB
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Bryan White
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Thanks, Curtis, I'm sorry I forgot your name. I was really excited to hear about the project and I've been waiting impatiently,(but quietly) for it to come. I watched a new video on youtube today that described exactly what I was looking for. So, thanks again, Curtis. You lot better watch out for me. When I learn this game I'm gonna be kicking some ass!
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Pete Martyn
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I'm only peripherally aware of other OCS titles and at this point have no intention to go any further than RE (though I certainly intend to keep an open mind and expect to thoroughly enjoy myself.)

I ordered RE for two reasons:

1. Y'all can keep your East Front, your Ardennes, your Normandy -- I'm most drawn to games that teach me something new. I'd never heard of Operation Exporter before. I had only the vaguest sense of what sort of actions occurred in the Middle East over the course of World War Two. That alone made it a must-buy for me. I'm psyched to zoom in on a largely forgotten yet entirely fascinating slice of history.

2. I like to challenge myself! It's been a while since I've sunk my teeth into a truly meaty game. And in my wargaming history I've never played something that gave a thorough look at all the moving pieces that make up a military operation, especially logistics. Tracing supply lines to my board edge is one thing -- trying to move large quantities of fuel and ammunition through contested areas while under threat of air attack is quite another! Again, it's really about shining a light on something with which I'm unfamiliar.

It seems like I'm likely not the typical purchaser, but I definitely wanted to weigh in -- both to give some minority opinions and to get a chance to rejoice in its arrival on my doorstep today with a small group of people touched with a similar strain of insanity. Because I think the odds of me actually managing to play this face-to-face with anyone are frightfully slim...what a lonely road we walk!
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bryan white
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As the gentleman who posted the video review of it pointed out, this game doesn't magically teach the OCS system.He rightly points out that anyone who wants to learn this game had better sit down and READ THE RULES, and he's right.I played the first page from the step by step booklet and it explained an overrun attack clearly and simply.However, I had no idea what the "results" from the CRT table meant, which means I need to READ THE RULES and so I'm doing just that.I have to admit that I'm a little disappointed that there isn't a magical formula, but honestly, if the game could be learned from a 16 page step by step booklet, there wouldn't BE a 46 page rule book.Well,as Lenin said, "Facts are stubborn things."I believe that after going over the material I'll be able to play anything OCS throws at me, and the small size of the battle, the unfamiliar campaign and the step by step booklet have me more motivated towards ledarning the game than ever.The original point of this post, that I could have done the same thing with several other OCS titles, is true.But for certain people, lacking in confidence when facing what appears to be an intimidating system,something like this is invaluable.And even if you know the game well, I'd think that because its small size it would be playable in a long day or a weekend, which you can't say that about many of the scenarios in Case Blue or DAK.That should make it attractive to veteran OCS players.So I heartily endorse this game and offer my kudos to the guys that devised the concept.Good work, and thanks a lot.
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Patrick Shirley
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Filippo Chiari wrote:
Hi!

I deeply respect your enthusiasm for this game, but ...
Do you think that after RE release all will change? With only RE and after two/three plays, veteran players will return to "monster" dimension.
I buy RE only and solely for having just a new title in my "magazine", absolutely not interest in the PG that is an additional cost that I would have preferred not having to pay.
And knowing a little the uman nature, after RE little or nothing will change in possibilities of play.
I started playing OCS for the "complexity and challenge" not to play scenario-like campaign, so RE will be a drop in the sea of OCS titles old and future.
Finally, to all new player of OCS, study forty or so pages of rules and after ... you want to play biggest campaign not only "one map, with 60 or so combat units (both players) in action at any given time".

See you on the Battlefield!

F.


Filippo you make a really good point. I in fact share your preference for larger more expansive campaigns. Ironically that's why I got RE (I own Burma and Baltic Gap)... let me explain:
Table space is a big issue for me. I have a coffee table and a dinner table available to me (I'm trying to set up a garage as a gaming room but that's a really long term project). The dinner table can fit a 2-mapper but it's not an option because, well, it's a dinner table. Even if I decreed that all future dinners are to be eaten on the floor until one of my campaigns was done I have a daughter, small nieces and a cat who would be sorely tempted by those colourful cardboard pieces. My coffee table, which can only fit one map, has had a beautifully engineered plywood 'lid' made for it that completely covers and protects any ongoing games. That leaves me with one mappers to play for the foreseeable future. None of the other titles I've found so far have one map scenarios that actually feel 'campaigny' for want of a better word. Although RE might feel light by the standards of the usual 2 map OCS campaigns for a 1-mapper it does feel expansive and big even when compared to other single map operational level wargames. And again there is a strong appeal to playing the full campaign of an OCS title, which is ultimately where most of the design work goes in. Not to mention it helps with another problem I have with OCS, finding enthusiastic players. As much as I would love to play a full campaign of Baltic Gap or other I'm far more likely to find willing opponents to sign onto to an RE sized campaign, especially when you have a 'begginer guide' thrown in there to make their initial introduction less painful. Those opponents, I might add, are the same ones that will hopefully see what I see in OCS (and campaign sized operational wargames in general) and be willing to commit to larger campaigns later on.
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