Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
16 Posts

Myth» Forums » Rules

Subject: Shuffling? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Edwin Karat
United States
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
In the strategy notes for the Brigand, it mentions "in one shuffle of the deck." What shuffling is this referring to? It's not mentioned in the rules, except under the acolyte's pray ability -- and those go back into the discard pile.

Relatedly, how do you not run out of cards after a few turns? Without cards, you cannot attack. How do you deal with losing 4-5 cards per hero cycle? You've got 6 cycles + maybe something from salvaged discards.

I can't find any rule that would give you your cards back. Are there abilities that let you get substantial numbers of cards back? If you discard those, do you just lose?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Naomi Nabbit
United States
Norwood
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
Trust that you are beautiful.
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
When your deck runs out, you shuffle your discard pile and create a new draw deck. Same with the Darkness deck.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Edwin Karat
United States
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
nyren wrote:
When your deck runs out, you shuffle your discard pile and create a new draw deck. Same with the Darkness deck.


Thanks. Is that in the rules anywhere, or are you just supposed to know that by word of mouth/internet? I mean, hypothetically the reshuffle could have come when you clear a tile or a quest or destroy a lair or such, if you didn't know the answer already. I've been running keyword searches throughout the rulebook and can't find a reference to it. I do think the rulebook sometimes leaves out things that the designers think are obvious.

Also, hi Nyren.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Naomi Nabbit
United States
Norwood
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
Trust that you are beautiful.
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
You will quickly find that the rulebook leaves out many details like this. I doubt it's explicitly in the rules, but I know it's in the gameplay videos they posted, so it's definitely correct.

The rules are NOT written for literal minded boardgames who are used to rules that are, well, clear, concise, and explicit. They seem to be written for people who either already know the rules, or who can make seemingly random leaps of logic to infer what the rules are.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Remi Bureau
Canada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't want to sound like the defender of the rules, because they do have shortcomings (even if they're not nearly as bad as some make them to be), but being able to reshuffle the decks when they're empty does seem like a given. I'm trying hard to remember one game where they mention you can shuffle your deck when it's empty.
They usually talk about it when you shuffle it before it's empty, or in somecases they tell you you can't shuffle when empty and you simply have no cards left.
Especially in a game where you can't control the speed at which you're cycling the deck since they're making you discard all but one card. I guess they should have because it's not the first time the question has been asked.

Sorry if it sounded like a personal attack, it wasn't meant to be. I think I'm spending too much time on the forums... I'm getting my game tomorrow, I'll have less time to be here, more to play!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Naomi Nabbit
United States
Norwood
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
Trust that you are beautiful.
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
There are also games where you lose if your deck runs out.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Edwin Karat
United States
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
RemiBureau wrote:
I don't want to sound like the defender of the rules, because they do have shortcomings (even if they're not nearly as bad as some make them to be), but being able to reshuffle the decks when they're empty does seem like a given. I'm trying hard to remember one game where they mention you can shuffle your deck when it's empty.
They usually talk about it when you shuffle it before it's empty, or in somecases they tell you you can't shuffle when empty and you simply have no cards left.
Especially in a game where you can't control the speed at which you're cycling the deck since they're making you discard all but one card. I guess they should have because it's not the first time the question has been asked.

Sorry if it sounded like a personal attack, it wasn't meant to be. I think I'm spending too much time on the forums... I'm getting my game tomorrow, I'll have less time to be here, more to play!


No offense taken. At the same time, I know a number of games where you lose if you run out of cards (eg Pathfinder Card Game) and a number where you make do with the cards you have if you run out. Also, the reshuffle could have been a reward for clearing a tile or only if you play a certain card. So, it wasn't obvious to me, though I suspected that there was some reshuffle mechanism somehow.

And, yes, I do tend to be literal-minded when reading rules -- I've gotten things wrong too often by making assumptions that seemed obvious to me.

As another example, I've been wondering what happens when you play an "optional" combo -- I intuitively want to put them all on a single action space, but the rules don't say this, which means I will put them on separate spaces. In retrospect, I think my initial intuition was wrong and that a literal reading of the rules is correct.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Naomi Nabbit
United States
Norwood
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
Trust that you are beautiful.
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
They go on separate action spaces. The advantage to using them as a combo varies from combo to combo. Sometimes, it's explicit on the card, but other times, it's really vague. There's still debate on this forum about what the Shadows -> Shadow's Reach -> Unseen Ally combo is supposed to do.

I strongly recommend reading the entire unofficial FAQ. Some of the official rulings in the FAQ (in my opinion) directly contradict literal readings of things in the rulebook.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Vance VanGogh
United States
Troy
MI
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The fact that this is missing is really bad. Every deckbuilder or similar tells you when and how to shuffle. Including core rules, even if obvious, is the sole job of a rulebook. Because as mentioned there are games that differ.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J Larkin
United States
Canton
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
RemiBureau wrote:
I don't want to sound like the defender of the rules, because they do have shortcomings (even if they're not nearly as bad as some make them to be), but being able to reshuffle the decks when they're empty does seem like a given. I'm trying hard to remember one game where they mention you can shuffle your deck when it's empty.
They usually talk about it when you shuffle it before it's empty, or in somecases they tell you you can't shuffle when empty and you simply have no cards left.
Especially in a game where you can't control the speed at which you're cycling the deck since they're making you discard all but one card. I guess they should have because it's not the first time the question has been asked.

Sorry if it sounded like a personal attack, it wasn't meant to be. I think I'm spending too much time on the forums... I'm getting my game tomorrow, I'll have less time to be here, more to play!


While I agree it makes sense for this game, otherwise it would be over very quickly, there are certainly variations between board games on shuffling. Pathfinder as mentioned, if you run out of cards you die. Summoner Wars, you play with what you have, no shuffling. Some games you shuffle during certain events.

So while it may seem to some this is obvious, that's really only if they haven't played many board games.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Remi Bureau
Canada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
LordCyler wrote:
RemiBureau wrote:
I don't want to sound like the defender of the rules, because they do have shortcomings (even if they're not nearly as bad as some make them to be), but being able to reshuffle the decks when they're empty does seem like a given. I'm trying hard to remember one game where they mention you can shuffle your deck when it's empty.
They usually talk about it when you shuffle it before it's empty, or in somecases they tell you you can't shuffle when empty and you simply have no cards left.
Especially in a game where you can't control the speed at which you're cycling the deck since they're making you discard all but one card. I guess they should have because it's not the first time the question has been asked.

Sorry if it sounded like a personal attack, it wasn't meant to be. I think I'm spending too much time on the forums... I'm getting my game tomorrow, I'll have less time to be here, more to play!


While I agree it makes sense for this game, otherwise it would be over very quickly, there are certainly variations between board games on shuffling. Pathfinder as mentioned, if you run out of cards you die. Summoner Wars, you play with what you have, no shuffling. Some games you shuffle during certain events.

So while it may seem to some this is obvious, that's really only if they haven't played many board games.


Again, my point was that in games where they steer away from the norm (you can shuffle) they mention it in the rules. Pathfinder and Summoner Wars being 2 good examples of this.

Now, SHOULD they have included it? Judging by how often the question has been asked, evidently!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wallace MacBix
msg tools
Also in Mage Knight: The Board Game, when your deck runs out you have the option of either ending the round for everyone else with cards or playing with whatever you have left in your hand. So I wouldn't say it's obvious.

Also, can on the matter of shuffling. Is it true that when a tile is clear you

1) Have free trade
2) Receive double MP (base and from movement cards)
3) Reset the Darkness AP to 0
4) Reshuffle everyone's hero deck

The only one of those I can find in the rule book is about the free trade. I've only seen the others on online videos. How are plays suppose to know these things (or even know to go online to find these things?)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jarad Bond
United States
Anchorage
Alaska
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
FALCN120 wrote:
Also, can on the matter of shuffling. Is it true that when a tile is clear you

1) Have free trade
2) Receive double MP (base and from movement cards)
3) Reset the Darkness AP to 0
4) Reshuffle everyone's hero deck


1) Yes (rulebook)
2) Yes (v2 rules - Brian)
3) Not quite. (v2 rules - Brian)
4) No. Unless it's an ultra-new rule on some forum somewhere.

Rules for clearing a tile have changed since the rulebook was written. Brian has stated that you get double MP when the tile is cleared. But loitering is still an issue (at least one hero must use one action per round still). As soon as a hero enters a new tile AND the old tile was cleared, you can reset AP AND everyone's threat level to zero.

No healing, and no shuffling of decks.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jarad Bond
United States
Anchorage
Alaska
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Also, with regard to shuffling - we all know by now that things are NOT so obvious. So you shuffle Myth when you run out. But there's a more important subtle difference that is still left unanswered and also not obvious:

When you exactly draw the last card of your draw pile, do you immediately shuffle your deck? Some games you do, some you don't. You could also wait until you need to draw the next card to shuffle.

This matters because I may be about to play Retrieve, or Pray. If I shuffled, there's nothing to gain. If I wait until I need to draw a new one before I shuffle, I could make use of these cards.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wallace MacBix
msg tools
logris wrote:
FALCN120 wrote:
Also, can on the matter of shuffling. Is it true that when a tile is clear you

1) Have free trade
2) Receive double MP (base and from movement cards)
3) Reset the Darkness AP to 0
4) Reshuffle everyone's hero deck


1) Yes (rulebook)
2) Yes (v2 rules - Brian)
3) Not quite. (v2 rules - Brian)
4) No. Unless it's an ultra-new rule on some forum somewhere.

Rules for clearing a tile have changed since the rulebook was written. Brian has stated that you get double MP when the tile is cleared. But loitering is still an issue (at least one hero must use one action per round still). As soon as a hero enters a new tile AND the old tile was cleared, you can reset AP AND everyone's threat level to zero.

No healing, and no shuffling of decks.


Ah thanks for the clarification on #3 and the addition about threat, I relistend to the "Extended Gameplay 4b" vid and you are right. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47DA8XRSb1M )


Can I ask where is this v2 rulebook? I isn't listed on the page:
http://megacongames.com/games/myth/

I have a pdf of the rule book, but it's the same as the printed version. Also without spending the hours I have trying to figure things out, how is anyone with the game suppose to realize this? There hasn't been mention from the kickstarter that there's a new rulebook (or any supplemental info if I remember correctly). And anyone who buys the game in store is getting an incomplete rulebook.



Oh some additions I forgot (also I don't think stated in the printed manual)

5) Any treasure not picked up turns into gold (how much gold, I have no clue. I'd assume you just draw white treasure card(s) until you get a gold value, but that's my speculation. It could just as easily be a fixed 1 gold, draw and item and get its sell value, or something else.)

Doesn't this rule also mean if the last action you do both clears a title and generates treasure, that you just "lost" that treasure? (Killing a lair or a captain last, or killing the final 3 enemies in one attack)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jarad Bond
United States
Anchorage
Alaska
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Someone asked about a new version of the rulebook. I know of no promises, but I've been collectively calling all these "corrections" the v2 rules. Because that's what they seem to be. He's compiling an official FAQ for sure, but some of these FAQ's directly contradict the written rules, so he obviously has a different version of the rules in his head. We're just teasing them out one at a time...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.